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Forum » Television Series » The Mentalist - Season 7 » 11 Byzantium (Contains EPISODE SPOILERS)
11 Byzantium
redbird Date: Saturday, 14-Feb-15, 11:16 PM | Message # 16
Dinkie-Di
 
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Regarding the significance of the number 3: Patrick Jane has also killed 3 times - Hardy, Carter & McAllister.
 
DaboGirl Date: Sunday, 15-Feb-15, 6:06 AM | Message # 17
Jillaroo
 
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I too have had a problem with Lisbon since S06. Her actions with Jane when she first came to the FBI where just awful. She ignored him and seemed to have no regard for his feelings. Then along comes Pike and as my British friends would say "her knickers flew out the window". Could she be anymore condescending to Jane. And Pike is way more manipulative than nice guy.

When they do get together she makes him feel like she is embarrassed by him and has to keep their relationship a secret. He has no support system on the job because of the "cone of silence" imposed on him. No one to even talk about his fears with during a situation. She could not even ask him to go to Chicago with her he had to suggest it.

It may not seem it but I am a shipper and think these two really do love each other with all their heart ans soul. But right now Patrick is making an effort to be a good boyfriend and she is worrying about her freaking job and how it is more important than him and his feelings. However he needs to remove the wedding ring!

Thanks I feel better now!
 
DS_Pallas Date: Sunday, 15-Feb-15, 11:43 PM | Message # 18
Fair Dinkum
 
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Quote DaboGirl ()
Thanks I feel better now!

ah ah! Now that was a rant! Good. biggrin

What's funny is that at the moment, you can find as many posts criticising Jane's behaviour on tumblr blogs, forums etc as posts criticising Lisbon's…
To make it short, Jane is a selfish bastard because he only care about his fears, because he uses his fears to blackmail Lisbon and force her to quit, because he acts childishly by leaving (running) after Vegas's funeral etc etc.
On he other hand, Lisbon is cold, insensitive to the needs or fears of Jane, have made her job her priority etc etc.

I, too, was inclined to have a grudge against Lisbon recently, especially since their conversation at the end of "Copper bullet". I found the way she was minimising Jane's dread and anxiety upsetting. I had my little rant too, n the "Nothing Gold can stay" thread, DaboGirl happy

But I've somewhat changed the way I was seeing her, after "Byzantium". She kept repeating that he couldn't protect her 24/7. You can read that as her denying Jane's issues. But let's face it: she is absolutely right. The problem is not her safety (she could be simply hit by a car while crossing the street, or die from cancer). The problem is Jane's obsession for her safety.
So maybe the Lisbon the writers wanted to show us is a woman who saw Jane's fears as his major obstacle to happiness. Maybe she is acting like she does to force him to realise that he has to overcome his fears, in order to really move on.

What made me change my mind is the way . When he's back in the FBI office (and it was so funny that she used the "Failure to appear' trick to have Patrick back! She learned from the best!), she could have had a much more angry reaction.
But no. She forgives him for his getaway. I think she understood he was not leaving her after Vega's funeral. She's ok to give him some time. She knows he needs to isolate himself when he needs to think (he did it for years, hidden in the CBI attic).
To me, she looks like a chess player: she has made a move, and is waiting for Jane's.

And it seems to work. First, they come to an agreement: She gives him space and time, and he promises to keep in touch with her. It's important for Lisbon. It confirms he still wants to be with her. Then she sees him on the field and he tells her "I"m back. I mean that I’m figuring stuff out, and I’m figuring it out. It’s good to see you". She understands what it means, and she seems so relieved. It has worked.
Because before reconsidering her priorities (work / Jane / their couple), she needs to be sure of his commitment. Then maybe she will think about taking a job where she's less exposed, and will figure things out too.

But it's just a few "Maybe". Maybe I'll see the whole Jane/Lisbon relationship differently after the finale?

There's one thing for sure, this show has offered us two complex and rich main characters with very interesting interactions between them… The perfect fuel for so many rants! It's great. tongue
 
Hannah Date: Monday, 16-Feb-15, 1:16 PM | Message # 19
Blow-In
 
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I come here regularly to read and enjoy, I'm sorry that I have so little time to engage as well... Just wanted to quickly throw my 2 cents in here, though, before the finale. It looks like most here are very critical of Lisbon and I just really wanted to address that... Not saying she's perfect, but I have to agree with DS Pallas on this: I agree that I think this is more about Jane overcoming his fear than Lisbon being insensitive to his needs.

Patrick Jane really is selfish in a way when he says to her that his dying won't hurt him - he doesn't think of how it would devastate her! On the other hand, considering what he has been through, I can understand this selfishness and how the fear of maybe having to go through that again is almost crippling! But can he really demand that Lisbon give up her job because of that? Lisbon has said before that she IS this job, i.e. she doesn't just do a job, it is a huge part of her identity. He knows that and he has fallen in love with her for who she is and for doing the job the way she does it. Heck, he enjoys catching the bad guys himself! But how can a relationship be successful if one partner demands the other one throw away a big part of their identity? She can't drop the job, just like he can't give up his tricks. The only way they can succeed as a couple is if they can totally accept the other, even with the fear. She has had the fear of not being able to trust him which she has had to overcome. He has the fear of losing her.

Lisbon knows he's afraid, and she wants to be there for him (how adorable was it that she sang to him in bed to comfort him during epsiode 7.8 'The Whites of his Eyes'?), she has compassion for him (even before he leaves her she tells him she understands how funerals must be hard for him), she gives him time and space to think things through. What she can not do, however, is change who she is for him. That shows her strength and I love her for it.

Jane's journey after Red John died is trying to find a life for himself that is good, despite of what happened to him in the past. He can not let fear guide him, that is not a life, so he needs to find a way to deal - and that is what the finale will hopefully bring. I want Jane happy and with a strong woman by his side and it really is within his reach if he can only find a way to live with the facts of life with Lisbon and dare it...
 
kim Date: Monday, 16-Feb-15, 3:52 PM | Message # 20
Bee's Knees
 
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Well said Hannah! I have felt at times that Lisbon isn't supportive enough of Jane, and that Jane needs to allow Lisbon the space to be who she is. Both have made errors in the relationship. I also think that the writers only have so much time and space in each episode to play this out. I am quite satisfied that they have all worked very hard to give us great dialogue, plot lines, mysteries and a compelling love story. I feel that given all the time and storyline constraints the writers have done very well. Ultimately, I blame CBS for being too blind to see what a good thing TM is and was, and not giving us a full season.

I love that we can carry on here, at home, my husband just rolls his eyes. I'm pretty sure it's hair envy!


Message edited by kim - Monday, 16-Feb-15, 3:53 PM
 
Fran Date: Monday, 23-Feb-15, 1:46 PM | Message # 21
Fair Dinkum
 
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Quote redbird ()
Fran-I've always thought that The Mentalist has had 3 very distinctive and different groups of devoted viewers. The group that was primarily just interested in Red John, the group that interested in how Jane's mind works and his mind games with Red John and the group that was interested in the personal relationships - primarily Jane & Lisbon. As I've watched the show and re-watched the show, it became fairly obvious to me that they've "played" to each audience at different times. And while doing that, the other groups of viewers have been deeply disappointed.

Yes I think that's true that different people watch it for different reasons, and it must be incredibly difficult trying to juggle all the different audiences, and downright impossible to keep everyone happy all of the time. I think they also have to consider the casual viewer, because its those people who drop in from time to time that make a difference to the ratings (a bit like the floating voters who decide the outcome of elections biggrin )
 
angel Date: Tuesday, 28-Apr-15, 8:06 PM | Message # 22
Cobber
 
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The opening scene again was truly terrifying and real. But did not cotton on at all that this was the Lazarus serial killer till the end. My mum made me laugh. She quipped 'what is it with jane, he is always sleeping and drinking tea'. Bless when he got pulled over and arrested. Lisbon got his attention finaly. The psychic i still don't know if he was real or not but was convincing except to jane who was adamaent he was just like he used to be. Kudos to wylie who has been brilliant. Loved the hypnotise scene where jane got him to recall a smell. Fabulous stufff. The little things always get me. Cho losing his cool with a suspect. he is bottling it up and the sympathetic words by abbot and cho acknowleding. This is what this team is about.Help each other but also give each other their space. Jane getting drunk for real and sleeping it off in the field so cute. I so love jane with animals. But then he happens upon what one might say is his dream home to be. Lovely setting. Liked jane and lisbon little heart to heart. Straight to point quick and solved instantly. But the ending was a shocker as again was not expecting this and role last 2 episodes. Cannot wait
 
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