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Episode Discussion - Season 4 - UK pace
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| Juney |
Date: Sunday, 26-Feb-12, 1:44 PM | Message # 61 |
 Bee's Knees
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I was a bit disappoined with last Friday's episode. Before the murder of his family Patrick was a con man and cunning certainly not stupid. He wouldn't have tried to get away with the money and no-one now will trust him or at least shouldn't but, of course, being TV they probably will have forgotten by next week. The end was cut a bit short as well but we now know where that room is. By the way what has happened to Tyger, Tyger, burning bright? |
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| Fran |
Date: Sunday, 26-Feb-12, 5:41 PM | Message # 62 |
 Fair Dinkum
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4.10 Fugue in Red
This episode gave us humour, drama and sadness, with wonderful performances from Simon and Robin - for me that's a winning combination so I thoroughly enjoyed every moment of it.
I thought the drowning/resuscitation scene was amazing, and from the moment Lisbon saw Jane in the water I could feel her desperation. At that point, who could have guessed that moments later I'd be laughing at Jane in the hospital bed beckoning to Lisbon and 'Are we sleeping together?', 'We're working towards it though right, so I haven't missed anything' - so funny.
I found so much to enjoy in this episode - 'Bigsby'; hitting on Van Pelt and her being flattered by it; asking Wayne for help to 'get some tasty gingersnaps'; BECAUSE; at the burnt out house tricking Cho (and tricking me as well); Grace's 'I hate him' (I understood where she was coming from, but have to admit I found him a loveable rogue); the hand on Lisbon's bum (I suspect an ad-lib from Simon); Patrick looking so superficially self-satisfied with the dolly bird on his arm and trying to get away with pinching the money (so bad, but still loveable!).
I can understand why Simon said his favourite Jane/Lisbon scene of the season so far was the 2nd hospital scene where Jane asks her to just let him be happy and we see Lisbon's reaction - incredibly poignant moment, but even that scene ended with a touch of humour.
The final scene is an example of why I love this show so much - not overly dramatic or dumbed down with lengthy explanations, but subtle and understated, compelling the audience to watch every nuance and be moved by the sight of Jane's memories returning, and leaving you wanting more - fantastic! |
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| Juney |
Date: Monday, 27-Feb-12, 5:32 PM | Message # 63 |
Bee's Knees
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I agree with almost all you say Fran, but I still think stealing the money was a bit out of keeping with the character. The end was so sad though. |
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| bee |
Date: Monday, 27-Feb-12, 5:33 PM | Message # 64 |
 Fair Dinkum
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I too absolutely loved this episode for all the reasons that Fran has mentioned. From the beginning with the drowning scene, which I found very realistic and a little hard to watch! Kudos to both Simon and Robin for amazing performances throughout this episode, from tears to laughter and back again to the inevitable conclusion when Jane would finally come face to face with the truth.
I thought the scene where Jane enters the CBI for the "first time" amusing with the team not knowing how to treat him and Jane's remark about the "tight fitting sweater" hilarious. To see how Jane has changed since the death of his family shows us how much his guilt and grief has affected him, and as Cho said, "it has made him a better person". I also thought that Jane had started to regain his memory in that burnt out house when he was holding the doll. I could have given him a hug then but as with Cho, he fooled us. The hospital scene I found very moving, you could see how much Lisbon wants Jane to be happy, but at what cost?
The inevitable last scene was short and to the point which I think made it much more powerful. Seeing the small tricycle made it even more poignant. It definitely left you wanting more.....from perhaps Lisbon giving him a much needed hug to returning to CBI Headquarters with Jane sitting on his couch and Lisbon making him a cup of tea!
Message edited by bee - Monday, 27-Feb-12, 5:46 PM |
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| sylvia5993 |
Date: Monday, 27-Feb-12, 6:39 PM | Message # 65 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 538
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This was aired in the US before Xmas and the long hiatus afterwards. It was great to catch a glimpse of the person Jane was without having to resort to flashbacks, kudos tot he writers. I thought the drowning scene quite well done and since Simon is such a good swimmer, it was quite realistic and heart stopping. The "are we sleeping together" moment so spontaneous I wonder how much of this scene was adlibbed. I aggree with Simon who says that this was his favorite bit when he says "let me be happy" to Lisbon in the hospital, although then saying there's room in the bed snarked. I could watch it over and over while waiting for the return in mid-January to regular episodes. |
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| Fran |
Date: Monday, 27-Feb-12, 8:32 PM | Message # 66 |
Fair Dinkum
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Quote (bee) To see how Jane has changed since the death of his family shows us how much his guilt and grief has affected him, and as Cho said, "it has made him a better person". |
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| Fran |
Date: Saturday, 03-Mar-12, 12:32 PM | Message # 67 |
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4.11 Always Bet on Red
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode the first time I watched it, and repeat viewings haven't changed my opinion about it. I liked that it got off to an entertaining start with Lisbon and Cho running towards the explosion and Patrick running away from it. And although my main interest is always Patrick, I like the Summer/Cho dynamic, she brings humour and Cho’s little reactions are a treat. But I do feel a little concerned for Summer’s safety, seeing as she was so blatant about being a police informer.
I thought there were some excellent Jane/Lisbon scenes. Following Darcy’s visit, I liked the way Jane tried to distract Lisbon with the ‘great legs’ comment, but Lisbon is wise to him now, so she got to have the conversation she wanted. Maybe this comment from Jane was also a hint that 'Patrick the Man' is starting to re-surface. The Lisbon/Jane scene in the loft was brimming with tension and Patrick looked truly haunted and briefly lost his cool, something we don’t often see, so I think this indicated how worried he was.
I also particularly enjoyed the more light-hearted scene with Patrick doing his thing and wrapping up the case in 5 minutes. I thought ‘hunting monsters changes you’ was a great, memorable line, and in the closing scenes, the music and brief distance shot gave me the chilling feeling that Red John was watching them.
My favourite scene though was Patrick reading the letter at the funeral, because it gave us a wonderfully moving performance from Simon and a heartfelt look from Lisbon.
Having said all that, what I liked most about this episode was that it challenged me to think about the morality of Patrick’s actions. Clearly what he did was wrong, but other people did benefit. Perhaps sometimes the end justifies the means, although I’m not sure it does here. Patrick was caught between a rock and a hard place, so he dug himself into an even deeper hole. He’s not going to get away with it, and I’m very much looking forward to seeing how the repercussions play out, and how he’s going to clamber his way out. |
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| bee |
Date: Saturday, 03-Mar-12, 3:43 PM | Message # 68 |
Fair Dinkum
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I loved this episode although I would have liked to see a brief mention of his memory loss from the previous episode, as it seemed as though it had never happened! Jane running away from the explosion made me laugh also...it's a natural reaction I suppose but with Jane it seems funny. I thought it sad that when everyone (except Grace) had gone home Jane was still lying on his couch and I wonder how often he sleeps there all night! The scene with Darcy when Jane makes the tea I found quite worrying. In trying to cover up his lies he is being drawn deeper and deeper into a black hole and I'm afraid he is taking Lisbon with him. In one way I'm glad he is at last confiding in Lisbon but the fact that he "doesn't want to put her in danger" seems to have disappeared and I fear that there will be repercussions that may include Lisbon! 
I found the scene in the morgue quite shocking. I know it was in order to protect Darcy but it also proves that Jane is willing to do anything to cover up the fact that Red John is still alive and makes me wonder how far he will actually go in order to pursue RJ.
I like the pairing of Summer and Cho although I hope it doesn't all end in tears. She is blatant about being an informer and I fear for her safety. They make a cute couple and it's so nice to see Cho in a different light.
I found the scene at the funeral very moving. I believe when Jane wrote that letter he was talking about himself and the loss of his daughter and it was ironic that he was the one that was asked to read it aloud. Lisbon's realisation was only too clear to see and it shows that Jane's loss is still raw and fresh in his mind. The final scene when Lisbon tells Jane that RJ will not be pleased that he has thwarted his plans for Darcy I suspect will have terrible repercussions for Jane. 
Message edited by bee - Saturday, 03-Mar-12, 3:51 PM |
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| justlook3 |
Date: Saturday, 03-Mar-12, 7:49 PM | Message # 69 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 501
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I wrote more in the US pace section about this one, I think. But the memory loss thing? A fanfic writer actually pointed out that people in fugue states almost never remember what they'd done during that state when they come out of it. It is a real thing though I think The Mentalist took some creative liberty with it. So that is an actual reason (unlike so many other times on the show where something is done and then never brought up again) for them not to mention it. Jane wouldn't remember and I doubt the team wants to talk about it.
That episode both enraged me and creeped me out. It was very well done and it does make you realize that Patrick is very morally grey. And seems to be dragging Lisbon down the rabbit hole with him. I have to also give props to Robin Tunney and Simon Baker in this episode. Their non-verbal communication (already so good) was elevated to art form. Amazing. It's like really looking at two people who've known each other for years and have literally been through hell and back together. |
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| angel |
Date: Monday, 05-Mar-12, 10:39 PM | Message # 70 |
 Cobber
Messages: 131
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4.10 Fugue In Red i absolutley loved. The opening scene was so nerve wracking and kudos for simon doing his own scenes in the drowning. It was so real and scary. Then on to the comedy and from start to finish was utterly brilliant for all the reasons fran mentioned. The hospital scene which was simon fave moment did break the lightheartedness of it for a moment. Wonderful. But no matter how devious he was, how awful i still loved him. Even when he took the money yes you stopped to think wait a minute that is so wrong but i still just loved the old rogue. The banter between jane and cast was brilliant and the end scene was so moving. Just the look on his face said it all. All the pain. My god what acting. Loved it.
4.11 Always Bet On Red was another excellent episode. From the start when it was so funny with the explosion and jane running away. God that man can sprint. To the look on his and lisbon face when the body gets sucked down and they realise a shark had taken him. But then the sudden change to the dark side. From the eerie video of Darcy and the message to jane quick reaction to go to her and realising she was ok. But the way she dismissed him quickly that she can handle herself was worrying.
Yes the morgue scene was distressing to see him go this far and frame a innocent man. But the letter at the funeral was his way of redeeming himself and somehow it managed to give peace to the widow that she can think that he died after killing their girls murderer. But we know there will be consequences and i too cannot wait for this to unfold.
And cho and summer i am loving every minute of their screen time together. Wonderful. |
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| bee |
Date: Saturday, 10-Mar-12, 6:14 PM | Message # 71 |
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Episode 12 - My Bloody Valentine
Although I love the RJ storyline, and it is getting very exciting, this episode provided a welcome break from the darker side of Jane. It also proves what a versatile actor Simon is. The drinking scene at the Porchetto's was hilarious, especially when Jane threw the vodka over his shoulder and also the silly "dance" at the end of the scene (which I suspect may have been a Simon ad-lib!)
Rigsby's impending fatherhood was a surprise but I believe he still has feelings for Grace, he seemed the most concerned about her disappearance, even going to search for her and the hug at the end led me to believe there may be more to their relationship in the future. Jane seemed concerned about Lisbon's fretting over Grace and I thought it nice that he consoled her.
Grace has developed a much harder edge this season (hardly surprising) but I feel she is still vulnerable...imagining Craig in the forest and asking Jane what he thought she should do with the necklace, should she keep it or not, shows she hasn't put this episode fully behind her and I thought it moving, especially as I believe Jane keeps the "smiley face" on his bedroom wall as a reminder of his past. I felt Jane let his guard down a little when he confessed that he talked to his wife and we don't often see a vulnerable side to him. My theory is that the necklace contained a "bug" in order for RJ to keep one step ahead of Jane. Craig gave it to Grace to wear but when he was shot he snatched it from her ...why would he bother to do that if he was dying? I think the story about it being his mother's was a lie. Grace placing the necklace on her desk could be dangerous if it did contain a bug. Well, that's my theory! |
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| Fran |
Date: Saturday, 10-Mar-12, 8:53 PM | Message # 72 |
Fair Dinkum
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I’m usually less keen on episodes which focus on one of the other team members, but I particularly enjoy Tom Szentgyorgyi’s episodes which always hold my attention (he was also heavily involved in the early episodes of 'Lie to Me' which are the episodes of that series I like best). And true to form, I thought this episode bowled along nicely, with a nice mix of humour and drama and a few surprises as well.
The Grace/Craig storyline could have been a cheesy disaster, but I felt it played out well, and I think Grace dealing with the aftermath of the Craig situation was something we needed to see. But yes, I agree that she still seems vulnerable so I think we probably haven't seen the last of it. When Craig gave the necklace to Grace, I also thought it was bugged, but now I'm not so sure because wouldn't they have discovered that when it was entered into evidence or whatever it is they did with it.
We didn’t get many Jane/Lisbon scenes, but I liked the ones we got, which showed them to be mutually supportive and in-tune with eachother. One of my favourite Patrick scenes was the card trick one where he hypnotised the thug. And I also found the scene where he got Porchetto drunk very entertaining, particularly the moments Bee mentioned. And I thought the same thing - that the funny little dance was probably Simon's idea.
I have to admit I hadn’t seen the Sarah pregnancy situation coming. I find it difficult to imagine Rigsby as a father, and I’ve never believed him to have feelings of long-term commitment to Sarah, and think he's still in love with Grace, so I’m interested to see how that storyline is going to play out.
I thought the final scene with Patrick and Grace was particularly good. Their friendship has sort of crept up on me, although I felt it was played with emotional detachment, so I still believe theirs to be a fairly superficial relationship.
As far as Patrick’s concerned, I felt this was a filler episode, but I thought it was quality TV, well-written, well-performed and enjoyable to watch. |
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| angel |
Date: Saturday, 10-Mar-12, 11:14 PM | Message # 73 |
Cobber
Messages: 131
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I did love this episode. I am really loving grace at the moment and amanda is really putting in some fine acting. Yes she is on the tough side but also still hurt and she does this well. Glad as in the past she seems to be the one left behind but at the moment i am sorry to say that seems to be rigsby though in coming episodes with the impending pregnancy that will change. Although in this episode it was nice to see his concern for grace. But this episode of rigsby and sara it had no emotion in there and they just don't feel like a couple. I loved the grace/jane chat at the end. They both seemed to let their guard down briefly. i think there is a growing underlying affection and respect between these two which i have always seen since the start and is growing slowly.
Jane was brilliant as always and yes the drinking session was so funny. I do love the actor Almeida who played porchetta. Don't be fooled by the grizzly look, he has got a few years on simon but i love this actor and he has always also been a secret crush of mine. He actualy could give simon a run for his money in the looks stakes. Loved him in Only You, Clear And Present Danger. His quip about Julio Iglesias made me smile.
The scenes with grace and craig i found very touching and emotional. I actualy started to like craig despite what he had done. When i first heard this was going to be done i thought oh my god this is going to be awful but it played out very well and i can understand in a way the reason behind this. Grace is haunted still by what happened and she has many questions to be answered. But it was well done.
Have to admit i never thought it was the witness who was the hit woman. I too loved the card game and hypnotising a suspect. Lovely. And yet again the trap at the end. Skilfully played.
Yet another excellent episode. I am definately loving this season. |
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| Fran |
Date: Sunday, 18-Mar-12, 2:37 PM | Message # 74 |
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4.13 Red is the New Black
The first time I watched this, I was so caught up in the Darcy storyline that I wasn't that interested in the 'case of the week'. But on repeated viewings the Darcy scenes have taken a bit of a back seat and I've appreciated the case more and more. I suppose this is because on first viewing I really wanted to know what was going to happen with Darcy's investigations, but once I knew how it turned out, it was less compelling.
I was on the edge of my seat when Rosalind rang and they rushed to her house, and they fooled me into feeling very fearful that she would be found dead. So it was a real surprise to me to see her playing the piano in a trance-like state with the morgue attendant dead. It didn't seem that the morgue atttendant had done anything bad, so I don't understand why RJ killed him unless he just wanted to send the message "I'm still alive, don't mess with me", in which case why didn't leave his signature smiley - I can't decide if that's significant or not.
At this point I'm really liking the Susan Darcy character (and the actress) and wouldn't mind seeing a closer friendship developing between her and Patrick, but in view of the circumstances I suppose this is unlikely.
As for the case of the week, I thought there were some lovely moments - I particularly liked when Jane found the murder weapon; the scene at the hotel with Duval, Duval's wife and Acosta; Jane not wanting to admit to Lisbon that he hadn't suspected Sasha; and of course Patrick's showmanship with the feather. |
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| bee |
Date: Sunday, 18-Mar-12, 5:48 PM | Message # 75 |
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I found this episode a little slow but I think this was mainly because I wanted to know more about the RJ storyline. Having said that I thought Jane's face was a picture when he found the murder weapon, he seemed so pleased with himself and also the fact that he knew Lisbon wouldn't want to go to the management meeting with Wainwright. He knows Lisbon so well even though she doesn't like to admit it!
I'm not sure about Wainwright - his odd behaviour towards Lisbon in his office rang alarm bells for me and also why did he not want to tell anyone about handing over the RJ case files to the FBI? Was he feeling disloyal or is there more to him than meets the eye?
I believe Darcy suspects that RJ is still alive and that Jane is lying about this and after visiting Rosalind Harker her suspicions are confirmed. She tries to catch Jane out when telling him about her visit to Rosalind but Jane seems now to be able to lie "at the drop of a hat" and sounds so convincing in doing so. Lisbon on the other hand knows when Jane is worried and because of their closeness can tell by the "bad news expression" on his face. I thought this was cute and I think that Jane now realises that after confiding with Lisbon there isn't much he can hide from her.
I'm feeling quite sorry for Rigsby, he doesn't seem too thrilled about becoming a father and Grace's surprise about this didn't seem to help. I think there is still some mileage in this couple as she seemed genuinely concerned for him but I also like Sarah although I can't quite see them as a couple!
The fact that Rosalind suddenly called Jane about Roy surprised me, why didn't she phone Darcy? RJ must still be watching Darcy as he had to have known that she had visited Rosalind. And why was the morgue attendant at Rosalind's house anyway? Did RJ take him there? And why kill him? I'm not sure about Rosalind, she seems to be the only link with RJ and is she really blind? I think she knows more than she is letting on. Jane now knows that Darcy is on to him and the fact that he just walked out at the end shows that he has some explaining to do. I can't wait to see how he gets out of this one!!
I can see Darcy coming to a "sticky end" because she is delving too far into the RJ case and as we all know RJ only wants to deal with Jane! |
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