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08 Red Sails in the Sunset
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| justlook3 |
Date: Thursday, 22-Nov-12, 7:42 PM | Message # 31 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 501
Status: Offline |
Apparently Simon did that entire car crash by himself, no stunt man! I can't even imagine, did the producers just not tell their insurance people? LOL. I'm sure that it was actually very controlled by their stunt coordinator but still there is a risk of injury. I think it was said that Simon did get a little banged up but was fine the next day. |
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| pip |
Date: Thursday, 22-Nov-12, 11:04 PM | Message # 32 |
 Cobber
Messages: 141
Status: Offline |
Just watched this episode........BRILLIANT. Wonderful to see Claude and Harry in there too, that must have been fun for Simon. This series is the strongest yet and if there are no awards for it then something has to be very wrong in Hollywood. |
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| sylvia5993 |
Date: Friday, 07-Dec-12, 1:43 AM | Message # 33 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 538
Status: Offline |
Brilliant!!! Speechless. |
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| kabuky |
Date: Sunday, 23-Dec-12, 2:28 AM | Message # 34 |
 Surfie
Messages: 83
Status: Offline |
I keep thinking of how the blind woman described "Roy" - just under 6', muscular but average to slim average. Mashburn is too tall; I forget why I eliminated Kirkland but something that was said in an episode this season/series. The "irksome" coroner in the pilot just seems too stupid though he does have the voice. RJ is definitely male (that blows VanPelt as some had thought). I would think Stiles would have a tough time making his voice sound ordinary or feminine though he is the right build; I would have thought the woman would have described him as older if it is Stiles. Has to be someone organized, rigid, sarcastic.....someone seductive...Bertram springs to mind but too tall. PS - just saw Bertram in The Guardian episode! |
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| kabuky |
Date: Sunday, 23-Dec-12, 2:36 AM | Message # 35 |
Surfie
Messages: 83
Status: Offline |
[size=6]I am sorry. I know that you go all to be angry with me, but I think that all the opinions must be given. And I take the risk of attracting me your lightning
I found Claude looks really stupid. He seemed not to know what to make. I did not find that he played well, if we can say that he played the comedy.[font=Impact][/size]
I loved seeing Claude but was also thinking it odd that he had no reaction to Simon's playfulness; I have to go back and see if his eyes were blue (or green like Simon's). I was thinking they were also green...
This season just gets better and better - my favorite by far....LOVED the 100th episode and watching Simon's acting - he did SUCH a great job at humbling Jane and the expressions on his face were SO different than our Jane today...he looked so vulnerable, humble, almost blank look in his eyes in comparison to evolved, secure Jane.
Message edited by kabuky - Sunday, 23-Dec-12, 2:37 AM |
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| Juney |
Date: Sunday, 23-Dec-12, 6:10 PM | Message # 36 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 606
Status: Offline |
I thought I recognised the boys. It must have been a great experience for them to act with their dad. |
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| kabuky |
Date: Sunday, 23-Dec-12, 9:47 PM | Message # 37 |
Surfie
Messages: 83
Status: Offline |
I can easily see Lorelei and Jane having a love/hate relationship. I can see her seeking Jane out after soaking in the truth about her sister's murder and looking to him for comfort.
PS - that water is FREEZING, I feel bad for her having to wade into it nude. Simon always wears a wet suit when getting into that water for obvious reasons - he'd freeze his tail off if he didn't! I am wondering how they got that past the censors!
Message edited by kabuky - Sunday, 23-Dec-12, 9:50 PM |
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| Juney |
Date: Wednesday, 26-Dec-12, 0:11 AM | Message # 38 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 606
Status: Offline |
Well Simon was directing.  |
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| AgentM |
Date: Sunday, 30-Dec-12, 11:39 PM | Message # 39 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 576
Status: Offline |
Fab ep!! Love the whole family thing Simon's got going on in it! I recognised Claude straightaway. The mole on his cheek is a dead giveaway, just like his dad's!
Once again kudos to Simon for a directing job well done. He has quite a cinematic style! Love the unconventional camera angles.
No one seems to have mentioned the fact that Jane is still testing Lorelai to see whether she's under his control. Yes he left the keys on purpose but that was only a minor test. There were a few control/trigger lines in there too ; 'I'd kill for a cup of tea' being one of them. I believe it was subtle way of checking to see if his previous hypnosis of her and implanting of triggers was still in effect. Lorelai's demeanor and tone changed immediately he said it!
I know Simon has hinted that maybe Jane's vulnerability may have led him into intimacy with her, and I know that Jane didn't deny it in ep S5.1, but I stand by my belief that nothing happened between them that night in The Crimson Hat. He has definitely planted a number of suggestions into her head (remember the 'how did you know I liked eggs?' question! in TCH, lol.), and he is still using her to get to Red John but I do think he believes he can still save her. I guess there may come a point where Jane has to decide between saving Lorelai and saving Lisbon - boy, that would be some showdown!
As for Kirkland - he's not RJ - would be far too hamfisted for Bruno to introduce him in this way ( and Bruno is far too talented to do that) - no, he has other plans for that character, methinks. He was, after all, the one in the limo with Schultz at the end of the 100th episode when she informs Minelli that Jane had been in an asylum for 6 months. She told him 'it's done' - whatever that is supposed to mean - could be that CBI have employed Jane (possibly insinuating that he -PJ- is a plant, or it could mean that she has passed on the info about Jane's emotional state - possibly to induce doubt? - Who knows?!!! Well, Bruno does, quite clearly...and Simon for that matter....but as neither of them are spilling the beans, the rest of us have to wait and induce migraines trying to figure it out!
Nice touch with the song on the radio that Lorelai is listening to - guess we know where the episode title came from!!!
As for the car crash, am surprised the network allowed their biggest star to do it, but am not surprised that Simon wanted to! I guess that explains the geniune look of fear on Jane's face when he puts it into gear!! lol.
As for the madness on Jane's face at the end - it reminds me of one of my fave Shakespeare quotes from Hamlet 'I am mad but north-north-west, but when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw' - It most certainly applies to Jane, and it even links to the Hitchcock movie, but I'm guessing Simon and Bruno already knew that!  |
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| Wand612 |
Date: Monday, 31-Dec-12, 1:34 AM | Message # 40 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 62
Status: Offline |
AgentM, I really enjoyed your write-up. I agree that it was a great episode and beautifully directed, and lots of interesting stuff regarding Lorelei. One of my favorite parts was actually Patrick Jane yawning while he looked at a naked Lorelei. I'm guessing it was meant to be both humorous and to show that sex isn't exactly foremost on Patrick's mind at the moment, to the extent that it doesn't even matter whether or not he slept with her. |
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| bee |
Date: Monday, 31-Dec-12, 12:28 PM | Message # 41 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1525
Status: Offline |
AgentM: Love your thoughts on the Jane/Lorelei theory. I too have always thought that nothing happened between him and Lorelei in that motel room (wishful thinking perhaps) and I'm so glad I'm not alone! I believe he hypnotised Lorelei in some way into thinking that they were intimate (he is after all a master con man). Here's why:
1. Jane's "date" with Kristina Frye did not go well. He got "cold feet" half way through and fled to the men's room thinking he was betraying his wife's memory, clearly shown here by the twiddling of his wedding ring. (Mind you having listened to her girly giggling I think any man in his right mind would have fled the scene)!
2. He progressed a little further with Erica Flynn and actually kissed her (she was however all over him like a rash from the beginning and the poor man didn't stand a chance) but the look on his face after that kiss showed shock, whether by suddenly regaining his libido or yet again betraying his wife's memory I'm not sure. Either way he again fled the scene.
However after presumably having SEX with Lorelei we saw NO feelings of guilt or remorse by Jane. Now I know Jane does act a little weird where RJ is concerned but I thought some spark of regret would be seen, especially after being so intimate with the mistress of the man who killed his wife and daughter!!! But NO!!!
On the other hand if nothing did happen why does he not tell Lisbon when he knows she is clearly hurt by the revelation that they were intimate? In the Crimson Ticket when Jane is telling Lisbon he has "no feelings" towards Lorelei he glances back at Lisbon. At first I thought perhaps he was thinking she was a little jealous. But perhaps he wanted to tell her nothing happened between him and Lorelei but changed his mind, for whatever reason.
Of course I'm probably wrong about the whole thing but it's nice trying to piece the puzzle together even if it is driving me crazy!  |
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| DS_Pallas |
Date: Monday, 31-Dec-12, 1:18 PM | Message # 42 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
Status: Offline |
Great speculations here!
One thing I fond very interesting is the great amount of people wanting to believe that Jane have never had sex with Lorele ï in that motel room. Don't they think Jane can go as far as using his body and sex to get what he wants? Is it the "prostitute" vibe in that act that disturb people? Because it breaks the image of an asexual character, in his kind of widower in shiny white armour role? … If PJ really did it with Red John creature, it shows an obstinacy, a strength that's almost superhuman, and an obsession close to madness. But it's soooo very Patrick Jane!
So why sex and even embryonic feelings with Loreleï are so unbelievable?
I'm like everyone else, I can only speculate on that, but if Jane never had sex with her, with not telling Lisbon (as bee says), while he sees she's kind of hurt by the whole situation? Why lying? Why overtly telling he uses sex to manipulate a person of interest in front of the juge, Mancini and head of FBI?
Pff, I'm lost here |
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| Juney |
Date: Monday, 31-Dec-12, 3:12 PM | Message # 43 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 606
Status: Offline |
AgentM, bee and DS Pallas. I echo all your feelings. I really don't want PJ to have had sex with RJ's agent, it really would seem like betrayal of his wife and daughter. Also I can't get over the thought that she was willing to cut his fingers off. A nasty creature all round. I go with the hypnotism theory, I wonder how long it will be before we find out. Will Lorelei last into series 6? |
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| AgentM |
Date: Monday, 31-Dec-12, 4:12 PM | Message # 44 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 576
Status: Offline |
Well, the thing is...It's not that I don't want Jane to have got his mojo going again (God knows the poor man deserves a little release!) I just think that his character doesn't need to go there with one of RJ's minions. Jane manipulates people - it's his god-given skill and he knows it. There were just too many little things in the scenes with him and Lorelai in The Crimson Hat that point to the idea that he planted the suggestion of them being lovers - much like Bruno has planted the suggestion into the viewers' heads. Jane is playing along with it, even though he seems to be aware of the effect it might be having on Lisbon - just like he didn't return any of her desperate calls for six months when he was faking his breakdown. It's in his nature to act on something and see where it leads and deal with the aftermath later. He's even said that he believes it is better to regret something you have done, rather than something you haven't. I'm sure he'll come clean with Lisbon at some point but at the moment he seems to feel it's better for her if maybe she does believe he and Lorelai were lovers. Could be another way of protecting her? Crazy and messed up as that sounds - but we all know how messed up Jane's train of thought can be at times!
I agree with you bee with respect to his reactions with Kristina and Erica. I just think he is too much of a family man to betray his wife in this way. The shot of his wedding ring when he was kissing Lorelai only serves to confirm it in my mind - guess I'm just a stubborn old goat!!! |
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| DS_Pallas |
Date: Monday, 31-Dec-12, 7:58 PM | Message # 45 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
Status: Offline |
You make an very interesting point AgentM…
Though is it really betrayal if you sleep with the ennemy to reach the goal of your revenge? He did it for his wife and daughter after all.
I feel like the Devil advocate, now but:
that look when he kisses Loreleï hair while looking straight in Lisbon's eyes… may be meaning "don't think we're real lovers, it was just a mean to an end" as well as "don't believe I even touched here, it's just a suggestion I put in her head". |
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