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06 Fire And Brimstone
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| Ivana |
Date: Tuesday, 12-Nov-13, 10:44 AM | Message # 16 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1223
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Such intense episode with great performances and direction. Excellent set up for the grand Red John finale.  |
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| Mcbabsi |
Date: Tuesday, 12-Nov-13, 11:17 AM | Message # 17 |
 Jillaroo
Messages: 58
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As much as I love TM, I do not share everybody's enthusiasm when it comes to this episode: for one specific reason:
What I have always loved most about the show is the fact that PJ never uses violencee, never touches a gun ...etc. He hs always solved every mystery by being more intelligent than everybody else...
And now he is threatening people with a shotgun??? come on, that is a serious disappointment! I thought when he would expose RJ it would be with some very complicated trap or a real trcky surprise, but not plain violence - anyone could have done that, that doesn't take "special" skills....
Well, just my two pence.... |
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| Tina |
Date: Tuesday, 12-Nov-13, 11:28 AM | Message # 18 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 2066
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PJ has always made it clear that his plan is to kill RJ. So he needs to use violence to do this. I guess he had planned to shoot RJ as soon as he knows who it is. So that's why he brought the gun. |
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| Mcbabsi |
Date: Tuesday, 12-Nov-13, 11:40 AM | Message # 19 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 58
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Quote tinamarianne (  ) CBI Team Member
Messages: 390
Status: Online
PJ has always made it clear that his plan is to kill RJ. So he needs to use violence to do this. I guess he had planned to shoot RJ as soon as he knows who it is. So that's why he brought the gun.
I understand that - but I am still disappointed. I thought he would "outsmart" them all...I mean he had YEARS to prepare for that moment (he said so himself) and that is the best he (or the writers) can come up with? |
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| AgentM |
Date: Tuesday, 12-Nov-13, 11:55 AM | Message # 20 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 576
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Who knows? Maybe when it actually comes down to it, Patrick won't have a gun or any weapon and RJ will be killed with his own knife after up-close and personal contact! Jane always said he wanted to 'cut him open and watch him die slowly like he did with my wife and child'. Horrible as it is, shooting someone is just not personal enough. (Ugh, as a pacifist, I can't believe I actually just said that!)  |
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| Fran |
Date: Tuesday, 12-Nov-13, 12:12 PM | Message # 21 |
 Fair Dinkum
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I agree with you McBabsi. Although I enjoyed this episode, I was also disappointed that Jane resorted to thug tactics to identify Red John. I accept that the ruthlessly violent side of Jane will come to the fore when he kills RJ, but I would have preferred to see him identify and capture him using his intelligence to outsmart him. Jane’s brain must have been on vacation because this 5 suspects scenario really wasn’t a very smart move. The only reason I can think of for the writers doing this is to show that as Jane gets closer to RJ, the caveman side of him is taking over and his judgement is becoming unreliable. But come on Jane, get your brain in gear! |
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| bee |
Date: Tuesday, 12-Nov-13, 1:43 PM | Message # 22 |
 Fair Dinkum
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I agree that from the very beginning Jane has always resorted to mind games and been adverse to guns and violence in general, even to the point of hiding behind Lisbon or even running in the opposite direction when trouble rears its ugly head! The episode "Always Bet on Red" when that boat exploded a case in point. However, I think as he gets closer to finding out the identity of RJ he's getting more and more desperate for this to be over and so he's not really thinking ahead of the consequences. As sad as it is I still believe Jane is ready to forsake his life in order to kill RJ. The fact that he put himself in that precarious position with those 5 suspects proves this. Lisbon has always been there to rein him in and ground him but Jane trying to protect her by "going it alone" may be his worst mistake! |
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| Hayseed |
Date: Tuesday, 12-Nov-13, 4:08 PM | Message # 23 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 549
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Quote And now he is threatening people with a shotgun??? come on, that is a serious disappointment! I thought when he would expose RJ it would be with some very complicated trap or a real trcky surprise, but not plain violence - anyone could have done that, that doesn't take "special" skills..
None of the criminals he "traps" with his clever games has any emotional meaning to Jane at all. It's a game he enjoys.
In contrast, Red John took everything from him. Jane wants to kill him. That was only thing that gave him a reason to live, and walk out of that mental hospital. It's a very base, lizard brain need. From the beginning he has vowed to do this, and he's going to do it even if it costs him his own life. Of course he's going to have to resort to violence - gun, knife, or otherwise. I'm not the least bit surprised. |
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| Tina |
Date: Tuesday, 12-Nov-13, 4:35 PM | Message # 24 |
Fair Dinkum
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And I guess coming so close to RJ, he can't think clear anymore. He's not himself anymore, he always acted strange and extreme when it came to RJ. So he uses other things like guns, knives etc. to solve things. He was always obsessed about killing RJ. |
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| shoelady |
Date: Tuesday, 12-Nov-13, 9:19 PM | Message # 25 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 46
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Remember how he gunned down Timothy Carter, thinking that he was RJ. He has always said he would do violence on him and be done with his revenge. |
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| June |
Date: Tuesday, 12-Nov-13, 9:21 PM | Message # 26 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 585
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It is called desperation. He's been ten years, ten years!!!, fighting for catching and killing Red John, with a trap, a long con, using his skills and nothing has worked. Now he feels to be closer to get it and he can't waste more time. He has nothing to lose and his acts are out of control. For me, what happen in this episode is easy to understand and a logical evolution of the character. Violence is his last resource. It's what expected. |
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| marta75 |
Date: Wednesday, 13-Nov-13, 0:58 AM | Message # 27 |
 Rip Snorter
Messages: 289
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I'm agree with you June. Violence is his last resource. I was struck by the gaze he launched to the sheriff as he saw the tattoo. Very well played by Simon and amazing episode. |
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| DS_Pallas |
Date: Thursday, 14-Nov-13, 4:35 PM | Message # 28 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
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Jane manipulating guns (and with skills that we've rarely witnessed) or using them is a bit shocking, yes. Some may legitimately think it's a bit "out of character".
I don't think it is. I always thought from the beginning (the scene where he shoot Sheriff Hardy to save Lisbon) that Jane was playing someone who barely know how to use a gun/shotgun. The way he threw the shotgun away was a bit "overplayed".
What confirmed my feeling was the dialogue between Todd Johnson (in "Red Moon" S3 ep9) and the CBI consultant:
Patrick Jane: "Todd, you repeat what I tell you now, and I will deny every word of it. If you truly want revenge, you have to be hard. You have to be dishonest and devious and cold. You can't let people see what's in your heart".
I think Jane has hidden his ability of handling guns from the start. You can't grow up in the Carnie world and not knowing to fire a gun, even if only fairground guns. And to have your opponent thinking you're a coward or gun incompetent is always a useful card in a deception game. And when Jane has a goal, he's certainly not a coward.
And because the end justifies any means. 
Message edited by DS_Pallas - Thursday, 14-Nov-13, 6:08 PM |
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| shoelady |
Date: Thursday, 14-Nov-13, 5:53 PM | Message # 29 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 46
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As I mentioned before, he did shoot Timothy Carter point blank and up close, so shooting is surely in his wheelhouse even if he denies it. Now, we just have to wonder if he will shoot RJ or cut him up as he always fantasized, |
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| DS_Pallas |
Date: Thursday, 14-Nov-13, 6:27 PM | Message # 30 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
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Yes, shoelady. To kill with a gun or with a knife are completely different things (not that I know exactly how it feels, you know  );
You must have a lot of anger, hate and violence in you to stab someone to death in cold blood. Is Jane cold-blooded enough to do that? Is he a killer? Can he turn into another Kirkland? |
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