|
Patrick Jane
|
|
| Geli |
Date: Tuesday, 01-May-12, 5:09 PM | Message # 1 |
Surfie
Messages: 92
Status: Offline |
Since a thread on Lisbon's character has been started, I thought some people might also want to explore Jane's character, I didn't see a specific place on the forum for this yet.
I think Jane is still very sad about the death of his wife and child and therefore vulnerable in a sense. I think he cares for his colleagues. I don't think at this time he's interested in Lisbon romantically. |
| |
| |
| smileyjunior |
Date: Tuesday, 01-May-12, 5:29 PM | Message # 2 |
 Blow-In
Messages: 19
Status: Offline |
Sweetness  we're gonna rock all of these character pages  |
| |
| |
| justlook3 |
Date: Tuesday, 01-May-12, 7:08 PM | Message # 3 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 501
Status: Offline |
Examining Patrick Jane could probably take a book. And it's so hard too because the character is so rarely genuine. I suppose it makes for an interesting character for Simon to play but it can be maddening for the audience. He can be selfish, childish, self effacing, definitely self punishing. He's often single minded and he has little patience for what he deems to be unimportant. He has little use for authority, although sometimes he does listen to Lisbon. Sometimes he doesn't seem to have a filter between his brain and his mouth, yet most of the time he neglects to say the important things. He's quick to cover up pain with a joke or a fake smile. There's a lot of jokes about Rigsby's eating, but it seems that for Jane, the only indulgence he still allows himself is food and tea. He can also be incredibly thoughtful and generous, he's good with children and he still has a soft spot for people in his past, even if he goes out of his way to avoid them. I don't think he intended to care so much about his team, but he does. He might consider it a weakness but it seems like maybe this season he's trying to reach out at least to Lisbon. He places a great deal of importance on her particularly, but I'm still on the fence as to what those feelings actually are. Are they like what he feels for Sophie Miller (Another woman who saved him)?
I'm still having a bit of trouble with the belief that he's going to fall "head over heels" for Lorelai. I'm not so sure he's really ready for that exactly. I wasn't shocked necessarily by the kiss with Erica. I think we've seen flashes of him fighting off attraction before (the widow in season 1 for example, Erica in her first appearance). If he'd continued to kiss her and not run off looking shocked and slightly pained, I would have actually been shocked. Which is why I'm not quite sure if I could buy if he and Lorelai jumped right into lovers. It would seem out of character. Now them connecting and moving forward in season 5, that I could maybe believe.
But who knows? Like I said, entire psychological studies could be done on Jane. It must be absolutely an actor's dream to play a character like that! |
| |
| |
| bee |
Date: Tuesday, 01-May-12, 7:24 PM | Message # 4 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1525
Status: Offline |
Jane seems to have been brought up by a controlling and abusive father (we have never heard mention of his mother) and therefore had an unhappy childhood, always travelling around and never making real friends of his own age. The fact that he had a breakdown after the death of his family shows that he feels responsible for their deaths and the guilt he feels has never diminished but makes him appear arrogant to the outside world. He always hides his true feelings and the vengeance he seeks on RJ is what keeps him going. He is therefore a very lonely man only showing his grief a few times and usually when he is alone, this is after Kristina Frye mentioned about his daughter and when he was at the graveside of his family and also when Lisbon took him back to his house when he had lost his memory.
He displays childish qualities and sometimes Lisbon appears to take on the role of "mother" to his childish ways., but he seems to respect her. At times he can also appear brash and uncaring to some and I think this is because he is hurting on the inside and I think the team know this and therefore make allowances for him. The CBI team have become his substitute family and without them I think it would be hard for him to cope. I don't think he is capable of forming a close and lasting relationship with anyone at the moment and the longer his hatred for RJ continues the less likely it will happen, although he has formed a close bond with Lisbon who I believe is the only one who truly understands him completely. I can't believe he will fall "head over heels" for this waitress because this is not in his nature. Of course this could all change in Season 5 (but I hope not!).
Message edited by bee - Tuesday, 01-May-12, 7:31 PM |
| |
| |
| AgentM |
Date: Tuesday, 01-May-12, 9:21 PM | Message # 5 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 576
Status: Offline |
Hmmmm the Lorelai equation...definitely a puzzler. I don't think it's so completely out of the box for Jane to have some kind of bond with her. His kiss with Erica stirred something within him that he has tried so hard to repress. He immediately felt fearful and guilty about it and made his escape. Yet he was happy to flirt with her when he knew she had escaped, but far enough away for it to be 'safe. Not sure how the relationship with Lorelai is going to play out yet though - I agree that 'head over heels' is a bit too soon, but then Jane's character has so many facets to it that anything can happen. He is unravelling at a rate of knots so unexpected, out-of-character actions should, I suppose, be expected.
I get the sense that he is riddled, not only with guilt, but with deep anxiety. There have been a couple of occasions where he has shown some signs of panic attack, though he does fight hard against making this obvious to those around him. His own body language gives away the battle going on within him - fiddling with fingers and thumbs, bouncing foot, darting eyes etc. His inability to give direct eye contact when someone broaches his feelings is a clear indicator of avoidance. He does it all the time - avoids things, constantly using deflection to move the topic away from himself or something that he may struggle with. The only person that he has allowed to connect with him (other than Dr Miller - to whom he feels loyalty more than anything else) is Lisbon - probably because he can sense a kindred spirit. She has her own demons to struggle with and I think he respects that. I don't believe that the relationship between him and Lisbon will ever become romantic - sure they flirt with each other, but only because they share a safety in the knowledge that it won't go any further. They can fulfil the desire for someone's attraction without having to commit. But even this with this kind of relationship they will also experience bouts of jealousy and the fear that someone or something may take away their 'safety net'. Not jealousy in the usual sense. For sure they acknowledge each other's attractiveness, but at an unspoken mutually agreed distance.
I agree that he didn't intend to care so much about the team. He joined the CBI with only one focus - to have complete access to information that could lead him to his family's killer. The need to stomp all over people isn't deliberate, but a side-effect. He was definitely single-minded when he started out but, over the years, he has learned and evolved in the way he uses people. Detachment can be a great focuser. Worrying about what others think or feel would prove to be time wasting obstacles and Jane's impatience won't allow that. His complete disregard for authority is most likely connected to his childhood and formative years - yes his father was quite domineering but it didn't stop Jane from doing his own thing if he felt it would work. As for his mother, oy vay! Who knows? I always figured his mom was already dead. I would love to see more developments within that area - I've often pondered about what would happen if one of his parents turned up as a victim/POI in a crime - and that it would be intriguing to see how Jane would react to seeing his father again. For sure there would be a lot of sparks - but would he repel him or show reluctant loyalty because he was 'blood'?
Jane's selfishness is definitely self-preservative (is that even a word?) His tendency to withdraw into his own thoughts and push others away by offending them is a defence mechanism. He shared once and it went horrifically wrong. He won't leave himself that vulnerable again. Everything he does is due to fear. It is a crippler, and therefore causes him to experience intense bouts of loneliness, which causes himself to hate himself even further for being weak. It's a vicious cycle. The childish antics point to his need to regress, to experience some feelings of safety, reminding himself of a time when life was much simpler and even a little bit carefree. Which brings me back to his safety net - Lisbon. He will push her away, however, if he feels threatened or if he feels that she (or any of the others) will fall victim to the inevitable pain that being around him will bring. Anxiety, it's a b***h!
His grandiose gestures of kindness to others is a way for him to get 'a fix' of the feeling that he could be loved and appreciated once more. This is always short lived. It's his way of trying to gain a little bit of respite from the punishing fear and guilt that has become his default setting. Part of him likes to be the victim, part of him despises being the victim and part of him has learned that appearing to be a victim can have it's advantages. All that said, as with all the really good con men of this world, he'll never let us find out just how much is real and how much is an act!
Sorry for long post! Got a bit too involved!  |
| |
| |
| smileyjunior |
Date: Tuesday, 01-May-12, 9:33 PM | Message # 6 |
Blow-In
Messages: 19
Status: Offline |
Don't apologize! Not necessary! 
And yes, justlook3 it pretty much is! The good thing about tv is that an actor can delve deeper and develop their character throughout the years (if the show survives). With Patrick Jane Simon is always getting things thrown at him, and he makes the character so perfect?
I hope to one day be able to get a chance to do just that (: |
| |
| |
| sylvia5993 |
Date: Wednesday, 02-May-12, 1:01 AM | Message # 7 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 538
Status: Offline |
Agent M, even though your post was long I can see you have some insight in the character Simon plays so well. I wonder if you have a degree in psychoanalysis with the terms used in your dissertation about Jane's personality, twitches, lack of control at times, and uncanny conrol at others. Even the rapid eye movement which in a sense shows a complete concentration without involving the other person, and then the long searching looks, as if to unlock a person's innermost thoughts and then manipulate these for his own concern. Quite an acting feat. |
| |
| |
| AgentM |
Date: Tuesday, 08-May-12, 10:00 PM | Message # 8 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 576
Status: Offline |
Hey Sylvia! Wow, you think I have a degree in psychoanalysis!!! I wish I did ! - maybe I should look into it?
I guess my insight comes from shared experiences with the character - it is uncanny how much empathy I have for him (Before you ask, no I haven't suffered the same kind of loss, thankfully - just the anxiety side of it) Sometimes it's like watching my own body language! I'm a writer, I observe people, I notice things. I have also done a lot of research into profiling and NLP, too. Necessary for the day job as a teacher!! So maybe that's where I get it from?
Simon is an absolutely amazing actor, his range of facial expressions astounds me... and I guess watching the show has taught me a lot about body language! . I absolutely love the character simply because he is so multi-faceted. And I don't think Simon gets enough recognition for his skills. I know all actors bring a part of themselves to each character and I don't know a huge amount about Simon's childhood and background, but I would guess that he suffers from anxiety, albeit on a much smaller scale to Jane - but it's there, nonetheless - I've watched him in interviews and have figured out when he's comfortable and when he's not - and he does play with his fingers alot - particularly his right thumb (there's a lot of stroking!) It's a comfort thing. (There are other interpretations, but I won't go into those here!) I think he just exaggerates it for Jane, who is after all a 'showman'. It's funny - Jane is always vying for attention but tries to avoid it at the same time. He struggles with people's gratitude and shrugs it off or avoids it completely. Why? Because he doesn't feel worthy - believing them would mean that he should feel good about himself, and quite simply, he doesn't. Plus, if he's anything like me, people saying nice things tends to exacerbate the feelings of guilt - for being too weak to accept compliments and feeling completely useless and self-loathing again ! Vicious cycle! Wow, I think I sound like a bit of a wreck really. lol  |
| |
| |
| Juney |
Date: Thursday, 10-May-12, 11:24 AM | Message # 9 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 606
Status: Offline |
Hi there everyone. I think I tend to take each episode at face value and as it comes. I don't seem to get into it as deeply as some maybe (Not a criticism I assure you). Maybe this is because I always watch with someone who isn't that keen and I can't go over and over each scene. I do have the first 3 series on DVD but finding time is a problem. I love the show and PJ and really don't want the whole head over heels love thing, a little flirting maybe - more in character I think. Maybe this is an age thing. |
| |
| |
| DS_Pallas |
Date: Thursday, 10-May-12, 2:25 PM | Message # 10 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
Status: Offline |
Very interesting things in your analysis AgentM!
Although Mr Baker often said in interviews that he has nothing in common with his character of Patrick Jane, he also admited having put bits and pieces of his own personality in his roles. I begin to think there's a lot more of him in the character that he would never admit.
Hope for him this professional experience will benefit him (if it did not already have) in terms of self-confidence, and self-knowledge (I don't dare to mention the chatarsis word here!).
(And sorry for any english mistakes, i'm French!) |
| |
| |
| AgentM |
Date: Thursday, 10-May-12, 3:27 PM | Message # 11 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 576
Status: Offline |
Thanks DS
I agree, I think Monsieur Baker has put more of himself into Jane than he claims. It's only natural. I am a bit of a details fan so I tend to look for the mannerisms that are innate - trivial things like how he holds a teacup, placement of hands on steering wheels etc. Simon's body language in interviews has a lot in common with Jane's at times, although he is much more shy! I'm sure alot of the mannerisms are contrived by SB as part of the character's traits. I understand Simon believes -the devil's in the details' too so I wouldn't be surprised if he was doing them deliberately - it's hard to tell 'cos he's such a good naturalistic actor (you only need to watch the movie 'Book of Love' to see that!)
And your English is very good - much better than my French - tres bon! x
PS now I sound like an obsessive wreck!  |
| |
| |
| DS_Pallas |
Date: Friday, 11-May-12, 2:58 PM | Message # 12 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
Status: Offline |
Quote (AgentM) PS now I sound like an obsessive wreck!
Come on! Not that much 
I have seen "Book of Love"… Yes, great acting, and, I agree, a very good naturalistic actor. He acts instinctively, but I think he masters very well the postures and attitude of the different characters he's played in his career. See the shape and gestures of Jeff in "Smith" and compare with the look of Patrick Jane. When my husband saw the first episode of Smith (having never seen SB in any other series of movie than The Mentalist), he just said "wow looks like he's a totally different man!" Now he's a real Simon Baker/Patrick Jane fan!
PS: Wanna look obsessive? What about the PJ hand gesture with the thumb forming a circle with the index, the forearm slightly raised… Is it a "only Jane" gesture or a natural Baker one? |
| |
| |
| sylvia5993 |
Date: Friday, 11-May-12, 5:51 PM | Message # 13 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 538
Status: Offline |
We have just seens the anniversary episode here in the states and you will get another very distinct look when he is at the dinner table. I cannot quite define it, wether it is sadness mixed with regret, or contemplating his future or next con as he is getting royally drunk. Enjoy this subtle but powerful acting on Simon's part and we'll talk later. |
| |
| |
| AgentM |
Date: Friday, 11-May-12, 10:09 PM | Message # 14 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 576
Status: Offline |
Oh wow, Sylvia....we may have to wait a while  I think we're a few weeks behind the US ---- now I really really can't wait! Jane getting royally drunk?! I'm just watching the one with the drag artists....airing for the first time tonight!
LOL , DS!  I know exactly which gesture you're talking about!! Oh and thanks for the reassurance Good to know I'm not alone
Message edited by AgentM - Friday, 11-May-12, 10:11 PM |
| |
| |
| DS_Pallas |
Date: Sunday, 13-May-12, 8:50 PM | Message # 15 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
Status: Offline |
You're lucky! Here in France we'll have to wait until next september for the 4th season… I could manage to watch it from now, but I don't know, maybe I'll choose to wait.
So regarding that "very distinct look" you're talking about Sylvia, wich seems very interesting, I'm afraid I won't be able to discuss it with you before a few months! But I write down the thing in my memory palace!
AgentM, alas no you're not! |
| |
| |
