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08 Red John
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| shoelady |
Date: Tuesday, 26-Nov-13, 6:29 PM | Message # 31 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 46
Status: Offline |
Heller also said that we would probably be disappointed that RJ was an ordinary man, like the guy next door, who turns out to be w serial killer. Simon quietly exhausted himself, not just physically (all that running) but the emotional toll of slowly choking the life out of his nemesis. Was he now the Tyger ridding himself of his demons? I too wished some closure was allowed to those of us who have waited for this to happen, i.e. those details that didn't seem to matter to Patrick. I felt a bit cheated. Now we will find Patrick exiled and happy wearing a sarong somewhere south. We know he comes back, to his house? his car? ... |
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| AgentM |
Date: Tuesday, 26-Nov-13, 10:56 PM | Message # 32 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 576
Status: Offline |
Quote Hayseed (  ) I feel cheated, as a lover of mysteries.
Hayseed, I totally agree. I'm not disappointed that RJ turned out to be a pathetic, weak, 'ordinary' individual in the end...that's what I expected and why I chose Partridge - he fit perfectly as someone who was a nobody in his daily life and who avoided confrontations and seemed fearful and weak. I applied too much criminal psychology to the fact that maybe he had an alter ego that allowed him to have power over others and gave him the chance to fool the man who had made a fool of him on more than one occasion, ie. Jane.
No, my disappointment also lies in the fact that Bruno only decided it was McAllister so late into the series. I believed the genius in his writing was that he had it all planned out right from the start and was dropping subtle clues throughout the series...that's what I strive to do with my writing...how sad I feel to realise that my belief was wrong. Don't get me wrong, he is an incredible writer and I did enjoy the episode but I just feel a teensy bit cheated.
And to add insult to injury...my brother has recently discovered the show, and borrowed all of my DVD box sets to catch up in preparation for the revelation in the UK in a few weeks time - he's only been watching it for 3 weeks and when I asked him last week how far he has got and who he thinks RJ is, he told me that he's decided that it is McAllister!!!!!!! His reason? "There's just something about him I don't like and he keeps turning up".
I guess that's a lesson learned then -- don't overcomplicate things - I over analysed and looked for too many clues when in actual fact it was Occum's Razor, after all. 
Message edited by AgentM - Tuesday, 26-Nov-13, 10:58 PM |
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| Mossibecca |
Date: Wednesday, 27-Nov-13, 12:47 PM | Message # 33 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 540
Status: Offline |
Oh how irritating for you AgentM....we have thought, and concentrated, analysed and pulled each episode to pieces every week for 5 and half years, you brother comes along and picks RJ out of a crowd because he keeps on popping up (holds head in hands)....I tried to apply the Occams Razor thing too......and got it wrong! And yet after the fact, it seems so obvious.....I can see why you were a bit irritated, Bruno DID lead us to believe that he had chosen RJ much earlier in the series, but I guess that is Hollywood, he probably never expected it to do so well....and it DID keep us talking for a long time....He obviously has yet to learn when to keep secrets like that to himself.....  |
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| Fran |
Date: Wednesday, 27-Nov-13, 2:35 PM | Message # 34 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
Status: Offline |
Quote Hayseed ( ) I feel cheated, as a lover of mysteries.
I also love mysteries and understand completely how you feel, because at the end of the day, this wasn’t a well constructed mystery, it was just a guessing game. Thankfully, I’ve always been less interested in Red John’s identity than in the impact he’s had on Jane, so I can sort of shrug my shoulders and not feel too bothered about it. |
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| Tassie |
Date: Wednesday, 27-Nov-13, 3:11 PM | Message # 35 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 517
Status: Offline |
I agree Fran, and I never went searching for clues as I always suspected it would be a whim on Bruno's part as to whom he would pick to be RJ. Of course I've yet to see 'the reveal' but from what I've read I think I prefer agentM's version. However like you it's really PJ and how he deals with the rest of his life that interests me. |
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| DS_Pallas |
Date: Wednesday, 27-Nov-13, 5:07 PM | Message # 36 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
Status: Offline |
Quote AgentM ( ) I guess that's a lesson learned then -- don't overcomplicate things - I over analysed and looked for too many clues when in actual fact it was Occum's Razor, after all. wink
Wise sentence 
Quote Fran ( ) Thankfully, I’ve always been less interested in Red John’s identity than in the impact he’s had on Jane, so I can sort of shrug my shoulders and not feel too bothered about it.
I think I can relate to that, and partly share your reaction.
Regarding the style and the directing, I think "Red John" was one of the best episodes so far. The pace, the editing, the meeting and hunting scenes etc, it was very strong.
Regarding the content, there are a lot of things that were great:
The whole CBI shut down, whith Lisbon staring at the empty space, OMG her eyes…
The meeting with Abbott, and Cho upset. I love this character more and more.
The team conspiracy meeting in the parking lot, it was bitter/funny
Jane & Lisbon in the park, the mute dialogue through their eyes, Lisbon's trust, eventually giving up her previous stance on justice and law hearing ultimate Jane's plea. If this isn't a proof of the woman's Love for her messed-up consultant, then what is it?
Cho "CBI! Back it up yourself!" to FBI Abbot's men was splendid.
Jane smirk when his friends questioned the FBI agents legitimacy, his face when Lisbon added "How do we know Jane's not in danger?"
The team in handcuffs at the back of the car, Cho stuck in the middle between the kids, Mama Lisbon reprimanding them… And the smiles when they heard "We don't have Jane!" through Abbott's phone. Priceless!
The "paper map" gag! I started to appreciate Abbott right here.
Bertram's death… "Hey?…" I will regret Michael Gaston. Great acting
RJ to Jane "You were fun, challenging. Thank you"
I think then, we reach the point from where opinions differ about this episode being good or bad:
RJ: You've probably a lot of questions for me uh? We have time if you want.
Jane: I have no questions. You are an evil sexually perverted sociopath with pathetic delusions of grandeur. Rest is just details
I would probably have the very same reaction than Jane. Now that the man I chase for 10 years is here, I'm not interested in talking. My brain will be only focus on revenge, and working at light speed to find a way to kill him. That was Heller choice; Was it laziness, to avoid the details / explanations a lot of viewers wanted? Fear on not being able to figure/write the right needed answers?
Also we see the moment when McAllister reacts to Jane verbal attack, calling him "a squalid egomaniac". He looses his temper, showing cracks in his cold-blooded character. It could be realistic with such a psycho, but I find it way too easy for Jane to hurt/upset his ennemy. We could have less time spent in filming RJ's run (breaking through the bay window, was it essential?), sparing precious seconds to write a more interesting and exciting witty verbal ping-pong between our opponents.
The woman in black with the knife was a convenient prop a bit far-fetched.
This said, I loved the final scene, from the chase with the running, the tension, the exhaustion, the breathlessness, and the climax with Jane straddling RJ and strangling his nemesis. Yes, Simon Baker succeeded in making us look at a murderer mercilessly strangling someone with compassion. How perverse it is?
The fleeting moment when he's looking at the gun. We read so much things in his eyes! And the first thing he does, a few seconds later, is picking his phone to call her. Aw…
Jane running in slow mo, with background images of what his life could have been, was a clever idea to close the chapter.
I could never stop saying how good and moving Simon acting was here. Hats off to Mr Baker.
Message edited by DS_Pallas - Wednesday, 27-Nov-13, 5:11 PM |
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| Sun |
Date: Wednesday, 27-Nov-13, 5:12 PM | Message # 37 |
 Cobber
Messages: 125
Status: Offline |
Bruno Heller said in one of the last interviews, the thing that amazes him most is, that the show is still on air. I guess this tells a lot about how hard the business is. If you create a show with a special story arc that absolutely needs a proper ending like the RJ story, you have to have some sort of back doors or crossing points in the story line where you can turn for a quicker ending in case the show won't be renewed. With this bad time slot on Sunday nights Bruno Heller certainly was well aware of this threat more than ever.
I’m happy that this episode again had more than 10 million viewers, they last time went over 10 million with episode 13 of last season (The Red Barn) and they already had been down to 7,7.
I'm OK with McAllister as RJ, although I would have loved to dig into old episodes and have this "oh yes, that's why!" exclamations. I have many questions and I see many story lines, which are still loose. BUT I'm equally happy that the JR thing is over and I'm much more excited now to see what the future brings for Jane and how he will use his mental skills in his new life. Moreover, we have only seen eight episodes of 22, so there is a lot of chance that we'll get some answers. Ahem... Did you hear me, Mr. Heller?
And yes, DS Pallas, hats off for Mr Baker! He has grown into this role amazingly and has developed his acting skills. Bruno Heller knows very well what a good choice it was to offer Simon this role. PJ is the main character in The Mentalist, not RJ! I think it a very clever decision to close this arc at a quite early point in the season and to have time now to experience completely new things for the main character.
Simon directing gives me much more excitement than any RJ ending!!!
Message edited by Sun - Wednesday, 27-Nov-13, 5:27 PM |
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| DS_Pallas |
Date: Wednesday, 27-Nov-13, 7:04 PM | Message # 38 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
Status: Offline |
Trivia: Jane kills RJ with his left hand, the one wearing the ring, symbol of his love for Angela (and Charlotte). |
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| AgentM |
Date: Wednesday, 27-Nov-13, 8:41 PM | Message # 39 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 576
Status: Offline |
Quote Tassie ( ) I think I prefer agentM's version
Thank you kindly! 
As for going back to look for any clues, I mentioned in another thread about all the bird references throughout the series - a variety of characters with names connected to birds as well as the more recent visual images of birds - I guess Bruno knew what RJ's phobia was going to be quite early on, but hadn't yet decided who he would be.
Patrick is most definitely the focus of the show and my interest...I absolutely love the complexities of his character...however, I love to solve mysteries and therefore RJ was important to me too.
Quote DS_Pallas ( ) Trivia: Jane kills RJ with his left hand, the one wearing the ring, symbol of his love for Angela (and Charlotte).
Yeah, I noticed that too, DS. Did you also get the wearing of the watch? PJ never wears a watch, he's always looked at Lisbon's. But he picked it up along with his phone from the shelf in the eyrie --- I guess the message was that the time had come. |
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| Mossibecca |
Date: Wednesday, 27-Nov-13, 8:58 PM | Message # 40 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 540
Status: Offline |
I saw the watch as being the fact that he needed to know the time, and he wasn't intending having Lisbon (his time piece among other things) with him at this point. |
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| marta75 |
Date: Thursday, 28-Nov-13, 0:11 AM | Message # 41 |
 Rip Snorter
Messages: 289
Status: Offline |
Quote Peithon ( ) That's partly Heller's fault because many times he claimed RJ to be Moriarty and a genius, but this is not how he portrayed him in the end
I think bruno heller was overwhelmed by its creation of john red. indeed, I don't understand how Macallister could fascinated so many people like Lorelei etc.... bruno heller escaped the difficulty in placing the dilemma on a philosophical level ("RJ is only a man") and thanks to the deep play of simon baker |
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| Evy |
Date: Thursday, 28-Nov-13, 0:11 AM | Message # 42 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1233
Status: Offline |
A (short) interview of RJ !................. (Xander Berkeley) 
(1:20) http://omg.yahoo.com/video....90.html
Message edited by Evy - Wednesday, 27-Nov-13, 12:33 PM |
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| DS_Pallas |
Date: Thursday, 28-Nov-13, 0:11 AM | Message # 43 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
Status: Offline |
I don't know exactly where to put this…
You should take a look  (but if you don't like politically incorrect don't have a look!)
Comment by Fran: Some people may be offended by the comments and bad language in this video
Hitler's reaction to Red John episode
Message edited by DS_Pallas - Thursday, 28-Nov-13, 12:59 PM |
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| beautyfulbabyboy |
Date: Thursday, 28-Nov-13, 0:11 AM | Message # 44 |
 True Blue
Messages: 782
Status: Offline |
Well DS, I never thought Hitler´s speech would ever make me giggle ...
I am still giggling |
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| Hayseed |
Date: Thursday, 28-Nov-13, 0:11 AM | Message # 45 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 549
Status: Offline |
Thank you so much for that DSDallas. I'd heard it was out there and couldn't find it. Made my day. How cathartic. |
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