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13 White Orchids
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| amanda |
Date: Wednesday, 25-Feb-15, 9:18 AM | Message # 61 |
 Cobber
Messages: 123
Status: Offline |
Am I the only one who found this ridiculous end ? 
Worthy of a series of romantic comedy and not a cop show? This cutesy end where the Prince marries the Princess. "They lived happily and had many children!" It is no longer "The Mentalist" is a fairy tale !
Already many people have been disappointed with the death of Red John. But this end is worse.
I am very disappointed in this last season. I think she was just useless and only made to satisfy the public. Any anwers to all the questions and mysteries strewn throughout these years. What have you done M. Heller ? It's a commercial end to satisfy the fans.
It's good that it ends because I think the spirit of TM is no longer there.
It's just my opinion.
Message edited by amanda - Wednesday, 25-Feb-15, 9:39 AM |
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| Peithon |
Date: Wednesday, 25-Feb-15, 11:08 AM | Message # 62 |
Rip Snorter
Messages: 341
Status: Offline |
My own opinion of the finale was meh. I preferred the season 6 ender. The wedding was just too cutesy, Jane's head broke a car window and he survived an explosion and not even a single bruise let alone an injury. I would have much preferred the killer had some sort of Red John link, (it's not like they didn't have plenty of good unresolved story lines to work with) and Abbott was a ridiculously kind boss. The story would have been better served if we pulled in with a camera on a beautiful lakeside house and gone into a bedroom where a sleepy Jane wakes up in bed and gently shakes Lisbon awake. Then a blonde curly haired toddler peeks up from the covers between them. I found the pregnancy announcement rather hamfisted. Show, don't tell as they say. I do not have a problem with a happy ending though. In my mind I just pretend that Jane couldn't really explain the ring to Lisbon - the truth was his and had to remain so. And yes, why didn't we hear about Jane's mother? It should have been pivotal-all kinds of great ways to have a Red John connection and explain the way too many holes. Hate to be so critical, and of course I adored the show and a bad episode of TM is still better than 95% of other shows, but they had months to do a better job. TM suffered mightily from the effects of Gotham where Bruno moved all of his best writers. But business is business. |
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| Fran |
Date: Wednesday, 25-Feb-15, 11:26 AM | Message # 63 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
Status: Offline |
Amanda - if you read the other posts here, you'll see that not everyone is totally happy with the Finale. But the words "ridiculous" and "useless" are rather strong ones, and thankfully I don't think many people here would use such derisive words. But I appreciate that as English is not your native language, it may sometimes be difficult for you to find the appropriate words and tone to express how you feel in a more respectful and less inflammatory way.
Quote Peithon (  ) The story would have been better served if we pulled in with a camera on a beautiful lakeside house and gone into a bedroom where a sleepy Jane wakes up in bed and gently shakes Lisbon awake. Then a blonde curly haired toddler peeks up from the covers between them.  |
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| amanda |
Date: Wednesday, 25-Feb-15, 9:44 PM | Message # 64 |
Cobber
Messages: 123
Status: Offline |
Quote Fran ( ) But the words "ridiculous" and "useless" are rather strong ones, and thankfully I don't think many people here would use such derisive words. But I appreciate that as English is not your native language, it may sometimes be difficult for you to find the appropriate words and tone to express how you feel in a more respectful and less inflammatory way.
Yes Fran English is not my native language and I confess I used "google traduction" to write my comment. But I think that I wrote and I hope that I choose the right word. But I don't understand in what way I am unrespectful and I expressed myself in "inflammatory way" ????? 
Message edited by amanda - Wednesday, 25-Feb-15, 9:55 PM |
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| Fran |
Date: Thursday, 26-Feb-15, 2:15 AM | Message # 65 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
Status: Offline |
Quote amanda ( ) But I think that I wrote and I hope that I choose the right word.
'Ridiculous' means derisory. 'Useless' means worthless. So I'm afraid I don't think they were a good choice of words for this particular Forum where people prefer to take a more balanced view. |
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| Tina |
Date: Thursday, 26-Feb-15, 9:14 AM | Message # 66 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 2066
Status: Offline |
And I watched the finale again yesterday and I just love it! Perfect ending to a perfect show for me. Well, I'm hopelessly romantic, so I guess that is why it couldn't have ended better for me . This will be the episode ranking high on my most watched episodes. Yes, it was like a romantic comedy at the end, but there was also the thread of a serial killer going after Jane, til almost the end.
Peithon, if you watch close you see that Jane had a bruise on his head after the car crash (that was the pic Simon posted and deleted on instagram I guess because people thought that he really hit his head but it was just Jane). And during the explosion he was far enough from it to not get hurt.
But even if it is not really realistic ...I don't care about it, because I said it before, somebody name one show that is 100% realistic. There is no one.
Episode 10 - 13 are very strong episodes in my opinion, they had me sitting on the edge of my couch holding my breath many times. For me these 4 were the best of the season, and amanda, I wouldn't want to miss a single episode of Season 7, because I thought it was even better than Season 6. Bruno said it was an encore, and that's what it was. And I'm so grateful for it!
Reading a lot comments in the internet, many were really happy with the ending. But you can't make it right for anybody, it's impossible.
I will always love Bruno for ending it like this and not going for Simon's suggestion ..which he might have not really meant ..Bruno said in the interview Simon was joking, because ending it with the death of one or all of the leads ...that would have been terrible ....that would have ruined anything for me.
I though Simon was acting the last scenes so nice and cute, how happy Jane was after the wedding, I can't get enough of watching how they all hug and how he lifts Lisbon up again and again ...that was the celebration of this wonderful show for me, and the audience was allowed to be there. And the baby ..it was just the perfect closure ...Jane totally happy again after all these years. And he SO deserves it!
Message edited by tinamarianne - Thursday, 26-Feb-15, 9:15 AM |
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| Thrill |
Date: Friday, 27-Feb-15, 0:27 AM | Message # 67 |
 Dinkie-Di
Messages: 210
Status: Offline |
Couldn't agree more Tina..... However S7 had played out - not everyone would have been happy... There are always things that could have been done differently. I think many of us had such high expectations we were expecting perfection and the ending we were after!
I enjoyed the drama, the story and being drawn into PJs world. As Simon said it was his pleasure to be able to entertain us for 7 years. I enjoyed the whole series. I enjoyed being entertained by Simon and the whole crew. I have watch each episode at least 3 times - most more than that. I can't say that about any other show - network or cable. Even those with more complex plot lines. I cant think of a character whole is as complex and completely draws you in, in the way PJ did.
One of the things I have noticed is that each time you watch an episode there is another layer - subtleties which aren't apparent in the first viewing - especially from Simon. That is where his great skill is.... |
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| June |
Date: Friday, 27-Feb-15, 12:24 PM | Message # 68 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 585
Status: Offline |
I have a question. I thought that "Brown Shag Carpet" and "White Orchids" were two different episodes released one after the other, but I watched them like one episode of two hours. Could anyone tell me where the first one ends and the last one starts, please? Just curiosity. |
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| redbird |
Date: Friday, 27-Feb-15, 1:11 PM | Message # 69 |
Dinkie-Di
Messages: 152
Status: Offline |
I believe that Brown Shag Carpet ended when Jane & Lisbon found Gabriel's body hanging in the closed down brewery. Everything after that was White Orchids. |
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| Raven |
Date: Friday, 27-Feb-15, 1:36 PM | Message # 70 |
 Dinkie-Di
Messages: 165
Status: Offline |
Code I believe that Brown Shag Carpet ended when Jane & Lisbon found Gabriel's body hanging in the closed down brewery
@redbird I believe that was still Byzantium.
I think 7x12 ended when the killer ran away after the house blew up. It happend around 45 min. The common cliffhanger in shows.
Message edited by Raven - Friday, 27-Feb-15, 1:44 PM |
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| June |
Date: Friday, 27-Feb-15, 1:40 PM | Message # 71 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 585
Status: Offline |
Redbird, you're talking about Byzantium, the previous episode. |
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| June |
Date: Friday, 27-Feb-15, 1:43 PM | Message # 72 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 585
Status: Offline |
Thank you, Raven. That what I was guessing too. |
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| PJaneloke |
Date: Saturday, 28-Feb-15, 4:34 PM | Message # 73 |
 Surfie
Messages: 93
Status: Offline |
Just watched it today. I waited as long as I can. I just doesn't want TM to end. I know it is silly of me to think of not watching the series finale will so how make any different but ...I just cant help it.
I know the finale is not perfect but I find it a rather satisfactory ending for the seven years journey I took with Jane. There are issues that that Jane and Lisbon need to work on but the ending make me believe that they will work on them and compromised. It make me smile and feeling satisfied. (I can't said I'm happy though...because I won't see any new TM episode any more after this) |
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| AgentM |
Date: Sunday, 01-Mar-15, 11:09 PM | Message # 74 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 576
Status: Offline |
At the risk of upsetting you again, Fran, (though I don't mean to) I can understand Amanda's comments about the finale. As y'all know, I haven't been especially enthralled with this final season because I think they were wrong to put the two leads together. One of the main reasons that I haven't posted many comments about each episode is because I didn't want to have to put down any negative opinions, despite feeling that way.I may not necessarily have used the same word choices but I find myself agreeing with the sentiment. I never, ever though I would even entertain the idea that I would be relieved that the series had come to an end, but there is a part of me that feels that way.
The finale left me feeling battered and bruised after being pounded by one cliche after another - oh no Lisbon could be in danger...oh no Jane is in danger...aaargh the proposal and return of old friends and family...oh no the serial killer isn't dead...oh no the wedding could be in peril...oh they caught the bad guy...woo they got married and everyone laughed and danced til they were giddy...and, yes, the Baker's alter ego has finally put a bun in the oven - let's all live happily ever after!
I know it's cynical and negative and many of you will think I am heartless and don't have a romantic bone in my body...(in reality, I have both heart and romance) I just feel that the writers were put into a corner at the end of season 6, the ground began to crumble beneath them and they had to frantically scrabble around to live a bit longer.
I absolutely adored this show - right from the very beginning. I talked about it, got others to watch it and dreamt about it - hell, I even began to write my own episodes as fanfiction...now, I feel a little bit numb. I will buy the season 7 box set, but only because it will complete the set and I'm a little bit OCD in that way, but I probably won't watch it again. There were only really two episodes that I found worthy of getting excited about. I am absolutely gutted.
I was interested to read that maybe Simon wasn't happy about the route Jane was being taken down - I hadn't heard that previously so I don't really know what he said - I admit I was disappointed in thinking that, having always played such a big part of what happened with Jane's character, Simon would agree to him becoming so wimpy and wet. Now that I know he wasn't completely in agreement, I feel a little better and little guilty for ever doubting him!
You see, a long time ago in one of the other threads about life after Red John, I mentioned that I didn't think there would be a happy ending for Jane - I think I remember being accused of being very negative - though maybe I was in some way thinking along the same wavelengths as Simon - I just didn't believe that fireworks and musical interludes would be right, even though I wanted Patrick to find peace and a degree of happiness and for his character to come full circle and be able to move on.
It isn't possible to please all of the people all of the time, I know but I do believe, as a writer myself, that giving the audience what they think they want isn't always what they need, nor always the best idea. |
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| DS_Pallas |
Date: Tuesday, 03-Mar-15, 4:28 PM | Message # 75 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
Status: Offline |
I can understand your point of you Amanda, and Agent M, though I don't quite share it.
Put the leads together was not what Heller (nor Baker or Tunney) had in mind in the 3 or 4 first seasons I think.
But as Heller said, the chemistry between Baker/Jane and Tunney/Lisbon became more and more obvious, and maybe was what made him change his mind, we'll never know for sure.
The fact than the Warner bigwigs pushed Heller and the writers team to close the Red John arc at the end of the first third of Season 6 put them in a corner regarding the way to close Season 6. And Season 6 had to be the LAST season in their mind.
The "reboot" was a challenge. I agree it could have gone in a complete different direction. I see two roads in fact: one towards tragedy, one towards redemption.
Or Jane meet a dramatic fate (like in What if he is really unable to move on and cope with changes? or What if Lisbon doesn't want to quit her job to follow him in Texas, or is fade up with his general behaviour and eventually marry Pike or another guy?), and without having to kill him in the end (suicide or him chosing suicidal actions to solve a case, for example), show us a character too broken to embrace a new life where he is at peace with himself. A dark fate where our Jane ends lonesome, eternally mourning the loss of his family, convinced he can't be happy. The epitome of the romantic hero.
Or Jane walks towards redemption, (that was the conception of the series from the beginning I think) that means with the help of someone he can be free of his guilt, be able to be opened, be able to tell the truth to people around him, to stop tricking or manipulating people etc. All in all, he can become a better man.
The writers didn't necessarily have to make Jane and Lisbon a couple for that. They even did create the character of Agent Kim Fisher as a love interest and maybe the woman who could trigger change in Jane. But the audience's reaction was so negative that they rather quickly dropped the idea. Because Lisbon was so obvious to play that part.
But what woman, single and on her early forties, would sacrifice her personnal life and think it's worth it for a man, if she in not in love with him?? I wouldn't if I was her :D. It would only be credible if the leads loved each other, and were in love with each other.
So the writers chosed to make them a couple.
Apparently, Simon would have chosen the first road. The producers and writers (and Robin?) chosed the second.
Personnally, I would have been interested in a dramatic ending, but I'm quite satisfied with the one we were given. I've suffered enough for Jane and Lisbon with the end of Season 6 (the whole Lisbon/Pike/Jane triangle and dithering thing was a torture). We were given some angst too in the first part of the short Season 7.
It could have still been possible to make Jane leave at the end, but I think it was too late and it would have made him a real a***hole and a jerk. Too negative.
Overall I enjoy season 7, and I enjoyed the 2 episodes-finale. To be honest, some things in the storyline were a bit far-fetched, and there was too much elements to cram in just 2 ep. at the end, especially regarding Jane and Lisbon.
But I have to disagree with some adjectives I've read, like wimpy, cutesy, or excessive use of clichés. Because real life can be like that! I know people who have come a long way in their life, have been through many bad things but at the end found happiness, or at least a better life with a marriage, the start of a family etc. It happens! For real! Is it dull? I don't know, maybe.
Jane was not wimpy. He faced his uncertainty, his fears and eventually found a compromise. And Lisbon was right to push him and corner him. Do you remember how many concessions she has made through the years (and the 6 former seasons)?? The list is endless! At the end, she was the strongest of the two, but Jane accepting her position and accepting her as she is was a big challenge for him too, and he managed to do it.
As regarding the pregnancy in the last scene, was it necessary? No it wasn't. But it's also a device to reinforce the idea that Jane took his decision regarding his commitment and their future life without knowing Lisbon was having their baby. And explain why she waited before telling him.
And what a wedding present, eh!?
I'll always remember the face of my husband (well boyfriend at the time) when I told him "you're gonna be a father". Priceless! A cliché? Yes, but again, it happened in real life and it's so good!
I stop here before being boring and writing an essay.  Love to read all the comments here and the different points of view! |
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