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02 Black-Winged Red Bird
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| Mcbabsi |
Date: Wednesday, 09-Oct-13, 8:34 AM | Message # 31 |
 Jillaroo
Messages: 58
Status: Offline |
Quote (Fran) ts because I really want to believe that Bruno has had a plan right from the start, a
DID HE???
I'm wondering about this quite a lot. Did Bruno Heller have this ending in mind when he wrote the pilot all those years ago? Or did he rather "make it all up as he went along?" I mean, back then he couldn't have known that the show would run for 6 or more seasons, so he must have had a "Red John" in mind...I mean this could have ended after the first season, and what then?
I don't know if maybe he has said something about this in an interview, but I would be interested in knowing whether this is the same "plan" for the plot that he had in the beginning. |
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| Evy |
Date: Wednesday, 09-Oct-13, 8:43 AM | Message # 32 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1233
Status: Offline |
Mcbabsi Quote Did Bruno Heller have this ending in mind when he wrote the pilot all those years ago? Or did he rather "make it all up as he went along?" I mean, back then he couldn't have known that the show would run for 6 or more seasons,
I totally agree with you ! |
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| Ivana |
Date: Wednesday, 09-Oct-13, 9:26 AM | Message # 33 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1223
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This is the new scoop from Mega Buzz regarding Bertram, McCallister and Smith.
http://www.tvguide.com/News....32.aspx
Got any scoop on The Mentalist? What was going on with that meeting among Bertram, McCallister and Smith? — Miles
ADAM: Although it is quite odd that three of the remaining six Red John suspects were being so chummy with one another, creator Bruno Heller suggests that that meeting bears significance beyond the parameters of the Red John case. "The CBI goes through its own sort of institutional crisis," Heller teases. "The walls are crumbling around them as they are trying to solve this big final mystery. Bertram is both a prime suspect as Red John, but also deeply involved in that other plot." Interestingly, I hear new cast members Rockmond Dunbar and Emily Swallow will figure prominently into that story line, which will become the central focus of the show once Red John is caught. |
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| Ivana |
Date: Wednesday, 09-Oct-13, 9:46 AM | Message # 34 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1223
Status: Offline |
Mcbabsi,
I always thought that original storyline was meant to be ended with third season. Strawberries and cream is still the best Mentalist finale. I had a feeling like watching a well-orchestrated opera. |
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| Mossibecca |
Date: Wednesday, 09-Oct-13, 10:40 AM | Message # 35 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 540
Status: Offline |
Someone kindly sent me this link about Carmen Lee
http://cliqueclack.com/p/mentalist-carmen-lee/
The Mentalist – Who is Carmen Lee? I think I know. …
Quite a few interesting Red John developments came about in “Black-Winged Red Bird,” and one of the most interesting was the odd mention of a “Carmen Lee.”
I can’t be the only person who thought it odd that, while Patrick was in the hospital with Lisbon, a nurse entered the room merely looking for someone named “Mrs. Carmen Lee,” and then exited the room. The look on Jane’s face told it all: there was something very odd about that encounter, and it wasn’t just an accident. I believe I know what it was: a clear hint from Red John.
I’ve gone ahead and done some digging around for you, in case you’re not as insane as I am and decided to spend a late night searching for clues about this. It is quite obvious and simple, though. …
The name “Carmen,” in Latin, means “poem.” At least Wikipedia says so. The surname “Lee” … also means “poem,” but in Gaelic. This nurse entered the hospital room right after Lisbon mentioned the “Tyger, Tyger” line by Partridge (and, earlier, by Red John), essentially saying “poem poem.” If that’s a coincidence, I am Red John!
It could be that the writers threw that moment in as a clue to the viewers — to analyze the William Blake poem — but it could have also been Red John’s doing, sending that nurse in either with fake paperwork or as one of his minions. If you do read up on the analysis of the poem, though, it’s quite telling while at the same time being rather vague. It’s a worthwhile read for sure.
The other sort of out-of-the-blue moment was during the scene with Patrick and Lisbon on a park bench. There’s a red-headed woman at the bench next to them, feeding pigeons. The camera at one point isolates on the pigeons being fed, at which point Jane spaces out for a moment. That’s one scene I’m having difficulty figuring out the meaning of. My first thought is that it was to symbolize how Patrick is being “fed” clues by Red John, and he just needed to see them more clearly. I also thought that it may have been to symbolize how Jane is doing that very thing to Red John, feeding him false information (e.g., that he knows less or more than he’s letting on).
Unrelated to those two items, a loose end that needs tying up is the fact that the trackers VanPelt attached to the cars of the Red John suspects had audio on them. I was reminded of this in the “previously on” segment, where VanPelt mentions this. What would we get if they listen to Partridge’s tracker? What about the others? If that portion of this season is not addressed, they’ll have some ‘splainin’ to do.
Lastly, the biggest clue — or possibly biggest red herring — was the reveal from the late Sophie that Red John (or at least who Patrick thinks is probably Red John) is a good whistler. The rest of her analysis could relate to almost anyone, but one thing is for sure: we’ll all be on the lookout for who’s the best whistler this season. |
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| AgentM |
Date: Wednesday, 09-Oct-13, 10:52 AM | Message # 36 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 576
Status: Offline |
I thought the whistling clue may be a red herring but I did some digging (as Van Pelt might say!) and discovered this:
In the UK there is a superstitious belief in the "Seven Whistlers" which are seven mysterious birds or spirits who call out to foretell death or a great calamity.
I stick to my theory that Partridge is our man!  |
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| Fran |
Date: Wednesday, 09-Oct-13, 1:04 PM | Message # 37 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
Status: Offline |
Quote (Mcbabsi) Did Bruno Heller have this ending in mind when he wrote the pilot all those years ago? Or did he rather "make it all up as he went along?" I mean, back then he couldn't have known that the show would run for 6 or more seasons, so he must have had a "Red John" in mind...I mean this could have ended after the first season, and what then?
I don't know if maybe he has said something about this in an interview, but I would be interested in knowing whether this is the same "plan" for the plot that he had in the beginning.
I think the details of the plot are made up as they go along, but the identity of RJ and the overall arc could have been Bruno's original plan that he's sticking to. There are a lot of filler episodes and there has been very little progress on the RJ arc until now, but if the show had not run for so long then it could all have been wrapped up much quicker.
Quote (Ivana) I always thought that original storyline was meant to be ended with third season. Strawberries and cream is still the best Mentalist finale.
I think there are quite a few people who share that view, some of whom believe that Bruno responded to pressure from the 'powers that be' to continue with the RJ arc. There was a lot of negativity following the Season 4 premiere even amongst 'fans', which may have affected the ratings, so in spite or perhaps because of the brilliance of the Season 3 finale, it may have been a strategic error by Bruno. But I steadfastly refuse to believe that Bruno's resolution of the RJ mystery was to pull a Timothy Carter shaped rabbit out of a hat.
Quote (PJaneloke) I'm also still think Patridge is RJ. All the other just doesn't fit as well. Quote (AgentM) I stick to my theory that Partridge is our man!
We're in the minority, but we'll stick to our guns  |
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| Thrill |
Date: Thursday, 10-Oct-13, 1:57 AM | Message # 38 |
 Dinkie-Di
Messages: 210
Status: Offline |
So many twists. I still think it's Brett styles even with the age... Or he is deep in it somehow.
However. We haven't seen anyone who knows Partridge actually ID his body. It was out of town and the ID may have been from a driving licence (easy to fake) then a personal ID from a minion etc etc just like rigsby's death was faked. I am a little surprised that PJ didn't check the body or Lisbon. Unless he knows it's Partridge but doesn't want to let on he knows?.....??? Or is it all of them ??? I mean is RJ the name of a group rather than a person???
Message edited by Thrill - Thursday, 10-Oct-13, 1:59 AM |
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| PJaneloke |
Date: Thursday, 10-Oct-13, 9:40 AM | Message # 39 |
 Surfie
Messages: 93
Status: Offline |
As for me, I always think S1 is the only season that matter in term of catching RJ. As what everyone had said, since no one knew how many season TM would have at the beginning, I always believe that if there is any clue about RJ, it should have been laid out in S1.
That is One of the reason I'm so fix on Patridge being RJ. My next guess will be RJ is MANY.
Thank you Moccibecca for the insight about Carmen Lee and AgentM for the "seven whistlers"! Indeed very interesting! |
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| marta75 |
Date: Thursday, 10-Oct-13, 8:50 PM | Message # 40 |
 Rip Snorter
Messages: 289
Status: Offline |
Very clever PJaneloke
I have always believed that the clues are in season 1. On the other hand, Haffner and Kirkland are my favourite suspects because Kirkland arrives in the story in the beginning (red dawn) and Haffner's story begun 20 years ago (red barn).
Bruno Heller is a twisted mind :-)
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| Fran |
Date: Friday, 11-Oct-13, 2:01 PM | Message # 42 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
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Just had a thought - remember the morgue attendant who was killed (when Rosalind Harker identified Timothy Carter as not RJ), I never really understood the need for him to be killed. Am now wondering if it was so that RJ could replace him with one of his disciples |
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| Tina |
Date: Friday, 11-Oct-13, 2:35 PM | Message # 43 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 2066
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That's a good thought. I don't believe Partridge is dead until I really see his body. I don't understand why Lisbon and Jane didn't check and just believed it. They should know better that RJ has people who can fake such things. |
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| Evy |
Date: Friday, 11-Oct-13, 3:27 PM | Message # 44 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1233
Status: Offline |
Fran and Tina : good idea !!! Certainly all things and events are connected !!! 
Message edited by Evy - Friday, 11-Oct-13, 3:29 PM |
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| Fran |
Date: Friday, 11-Oct-13, 5:17 PM | Message # 45 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
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Quote tinamarianne (  ) I don't believe Partridge is dead until I really see his body. I don't understand why Lisbon and Jane didn't check and just believed it. They should know better that RJ has people who can fake such things.
The way I'm thinking is - Lisbon (in a highly frightened state) thinks she saw him die, and then she was unconscious. Seeing her like that distracted Jane from his usual careful scrutiny of the crime scene, classic mentalist distraction technique which we've seen many times. I agree they should have checked at the morgue afterwards, but perhaps its simply that they haven't had a chance to think it through, their minds have been occupied elsewhere - more distraction in the form of Sophie.
My guess is that Partridge faked his death using the rubber ball under the armpit trick that we've seen Jane use. And he may also have arranged for one of his followers to be one of the paramedics. His 'body' is delivered to the morgue, then its a simple matter for his man there to replace him with a different body  |
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:help: 
