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04 Red Listed
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| DS_Pallas |
Date: Tuesday, 22-Oct-13, 10:51 PM | Message # 16 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
Status: Offline |
Quote Mossibecca (  ) For some reason (Not yet known) Grace gave me the heebie jeebies this time....somehow I think it was when Lisbon asked her to 'ping' Janes phone....she seemed reluctant...of course I may just be a conspiracy nut, and all may be well.....Bruno....you are messing with my head!!
Yes I saw that too.
I think there's a simple explanation: she has booked a nuptial suite to surprise Rigsby that night, and don't want her day job to end too late… simple as that.
We all become too much paranoïd…  |
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| Fran |
Date: Tuesday, 22-Oct-13, 11:32 PM | Message # 17 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
Status: Offline |
Not my favourite type of episode, I prefer less explicit violence and more humour, but I think it’s probably inevitable that these serialised episodes are going to be darker. I thought the episode was well done, well acted, moved us forward and gave us plenty to think about. The scenes I enjoyed most were Jane with Hightower’s Aunt, and Jane with Hightower in the Chinese Restaurant.
I feel that the audience is being encouraged to think that the Tyger Tyger network is built around Red John, and probably for that reason more than anything else, I don’t believe that to be the case. This episode confirmed that there’s a network of corruption within law enforcement, and I think Red John may well be involved somehow as a member of that network. But I don’t believe that all these corrupt people are disciples of Red John who are being motivated by a desire to further the Red John doctrine. I think it seems more likely that they’re being motivated for selfish reasons such as greed. So I don’t believe RJ is running that particular network, but I do think its possible that Bret Stiles is at the helm. And my money (but only a very small amount) is still on Partridge as RJ. |
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| Ivana |
Date: Wednesday, 23-Oct-13, 9:42 AM | Message # 18 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1223
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Great episode. As Jane said "plot thickens".
Fran,
Quote I thought the episode was well done, well acted, moved us forward and gave us plenty to think about.
Well said Fran, plus it gave us lot of Jane's different smiles, expressions and emotions. And with each episode Simon is looking better and fitter (judging by the BTS photos from My Blue Heaven). Looking forward  |
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| DS_Pallas |
Date: Wednesday, 23-Oct-13, 12:03 PM | Message # 19 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
Status: Offline |
Saw it last night. A lot of things in that episode!
Great scenes:
Jane at Hightower aunt. So good.
Lisbon visiting Haibach (again)  (and the creepy room he keeps in his house)
I liked the fake list backlash on Jane and on the innocent/not so innocent suspects, and how Kirkland wreaks havoc on it.
Jane tied up on the chair and joking with the "Don Turtme" name and grinning like a kid! He doesn't seem afraid of being at Kirkland mercy, I think he even allows this by hoping on Kirkland's car willingly (he could have run).
He only seems to freak out when Kirkland is cutting Haibach thumb, showing he can have empathy for others, even for a bad guy like the pedophile.
Jane is often showing himself as the coward, but he's in fact a strong, determined and gutsy man when it comes to his revenge.
Jane and Hightower at the restaurant. Some answers, at last.
Van Pelt sulking when Lisbon asks her to track down Jane's phone. Found that creepy, until I understood she only has a surprise for Rigsby and don't want to stay late at work that night!
Drew Powel (Smith) and Corrigan: great acting. I'm impressed.
The resignation of Kirkland at the end, knowing he's a walking dead.
Things that didn't really work for me:
Lisbon looks a bit out of it all along the episode. Her light reaction to the disappearance of Madeleine an her kids… She seems to do not give a f*ck about her former boss. She only seems to care when it comes to Jane safety.
As well as the conversation between KIrkland and Smith in the park is very interesting, I wonder why the Homeland Security man is so naive asking for help from the FBI like that, in an arrogant and clumsy way ("you are an underling, so I can trust you") 
Message edited by DS_Pallas - Wednesday, 23-Oct-13, 12:04 PM |
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| Wand6122360 |
Date: Wednesday, 23-Oct-13, 2:16 PM | Message # 20 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 517
Status: Offline |
You're right about Lisbon, DS_Pallas. You've put your finger on what was slightly bothering me. Patrick Jane, Kirkland, Hightower, etc... I admired all their acting. I thought that it was in super top form and worthy of the best dramas on tv. Somehow, this doesn't apply quite as much to Lisbon. It's as if she doing another show, where nothing is very serious. I think this was also true for the roof scene in the last episode. That said, I do like Lisbon, especially her scenes with Patrick.
I am enjoying this season very much, and eagerly wait for Sundays. |
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| shoelady |
Date: Wednesday, 23-Oct-13, 5:31 PM | Message # 21 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 46
Status: Offline |
Lisbon is indeed off her game, like a child lost in a maze. Maybe the actress is trying to imply her lack of faith in what is going on or the impossible turn of events, however, she isn't pulling it off , better direction needed. Even Simon flubbed a few times, not showing fear when he should be petrified at the thought of torture, again better direction needed. |
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| Wand6122360 |
Date: Wednesday, 23-Oct-13, 5:40 PM | Message # 22 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 517
Status: Offline |
What I think they're doing is trying to keep the show from becoming too intense, because it is supposed to be somewhat lighthearted. The result is a bit odd sometimes, but I don't mind. I appreciate scaled back intensity. |
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| AgentM |
Date: Wednesday, 23-Oct-13, 5:51 PM | Message # 23 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 576
Status: Offline |
Hmmmm, kudos to Rebecca Cutter! I really enjoyed this episode, especially needed after the slightly disappointing ep last week.
I really liked the focus of this one being fully on the RJ case. The humour in it made me chuckle - loved Jane's quip, "Yeah he's in for a rough night", when Lisbon pointed out that Haibach had been abducted and most likely would be tortured! Also loved Cho winding up Rigsby about sex after marriage - they are such a fantastic pairing when it comes to the lighter side of TM. Rigsby really can't spot when his buddy is playing him, you got to love his naivety!
Even though Grace seemed reluctant to locate PJ's phone, possibly due to the surprise for Rigsby later that night (as everyone has mentioned) I still think Bruno is going to link her to Visualize in some way.
So Kirkland is off the list. Did anyone else notice what PJ said about that list...2 down "5 is a more manageable number" Now I'm not brilliant at math, but with Partridge allegedly dead, MacAllister and Kirkland off the list, that takes it down to 4. I'm not convinced that PJ is convinced about Partridge either!
My conviction remains true - Partridge is Red John!
I also think that the conversation with Kirkland holding Jane answered a few obvious questions, such as the "have you seen me before?" question and the reason why he was spying on Jane and pursuing RJ, but I also think it provided a few possible clues as to the relationship between PJ and RJ. Jane's comment about having no siblings - I don't think he realises he has, but I suspect that Partridge will turn out to be a half-brother or something - also that it is a "strong bond" and that "the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree". Partridge as RJ has shown himself to have power over others and be charismatic and resourceful, Bret Stiles is also all of those things. My theory is that Stiles is Partridge and Jane's biological father. This would also tie in with the Blake poem, Tyger Tyger, and the question about the creator of the tiger and the lamb, and the use of Tyger Tyger as a password (I suspect Partridge may have used it with Jane because he would have been aware of the organisation, being in law enforcement). BTW did anyone pick up on the fact that Hightower's Aunt called Jane a "poor lamb"???? Another cryptic clue, Bruno?
Loved the interaction between Jane and Hightower. I've always felt that if Jane were to move on and form a relationship, it would possibly be with her, NOT Lisbon (please not Lisbon - sorry shippers!) I don't believe that her Aunt was too far off the mark when she said that Jane was a little sweet on her niece (and her on him) - the fact that she risked everything to help save him, the gentle kiss he placed on her cheek and the eye contact between them confirmed it for me. Jane's reaction to the comment was so obviously exaggerated to make us believe that he was pulling a con - but then he can sometimes be a terrible liar too, and often reacts in on OTT manner when he is deliberately lying about something. Just check out a few of the times he's lied to Lisbon (eg when he told her that RJ didn't say anything to him when he was tied tot he chair in S2 ... there are others!)
As for the shady organisation... most likely connected to Visualize in some way. MacAllister, Reed and Bertram are all members for sure. I don't think RJ is at the helm though. I think it is just a parallel plot line.
Kirkland's death was not unexpected...we are wise now to the fact that when someone makes arrangements to 'visit' with someone because they have things to tell them, something bad will ultimately befall them before they get the chance. The fact that Reed did the deed only served to prove to me that he's not RJ. I don't think that Jane has totally dismissed him yet, nor does Bruno want us to totally dismiss him yet, hence the involvement in the mysterious group.
Overall, I really enjoyed the episode. Well done Team Mentalist! |
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| Fran |
Date: Wednesday, 23-Oct-13, 6:11 PM | Message # 24 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
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Quote shoelady ( ) Even Simon flubbed a few times, not showing fear when he should be petrified at the thought of torture, again better direction needed.
Or perhaps you're just failing to appreciate an alternative acting choice. We've seen Jane in captivity quite a few times, being threatened by all sorts of things, sometimes he shows fear and sometimes he doesn't. I've always assumed that when he doesn't, it's because he's feeling confident that he can control the situation and talk his way out of it. |
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| Wand6122360 |
Date: Wednesday, 23-Oct-13, 6:26 PM | Message # 25 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 517
Status: Offline |
Good points, Fran. I guess each torturer has their own personality, and Jane tries to play on that. |
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| DS_Pallas |
Date: Wednesday, 23-Oct-13, 6:48 PM | Message # 26 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
Status: Offline |
Quote AgentM ( ) Did anyone else notice what PJ said about that list...2 down "5 is a more manageable number" Now I'm not brilliant at math, but with Partridge allegedly dead, MacAllister and Kirkland off the list, that takes it down to 4. I'm not convinced that PJ is convinced about Partridge either!
But if I remember well, Jane didn't exclude McAllister from the list at the end of Wedding in Red… So it's 5 remaining suspects.
Quote AgentM ( ) My theory is that Stiles is Partridge and Jane's biological father. This would also tie in with the Blake poem, Tyger Tyger, and the question about the creator of the tiger and the lamb, and the use of Tyger Tyger as a password
Yes, my theory too since the beginning of Season 5!
Quote Fran ( ) Quote shoelady ()
Even Simon flubbed a few times, not showing fear when he should be petrified at the thought of torture, again better direction needed.
Could be the case… But as I previously said, I think he's not showing much fear because he doesn't really think Kirkland will torture him ; Sometimes his huge ego, arrogance and self-esteem make him misjudge and underestimate dangerous situations as here (we've seen it lately in Black-Winged Red Bird when he forgets the second gun, sure the peanuts will do the trick and end the case smoothly). He's confident in dialogue. And he shows fear, when Kirkland cut the thum of Haibach. So it's no lack of directing for me. But tha'ts just my opinion!
Agree for Lisbon/Tunney though, she seems to be unfocused and miss the point. Wonder if it's intentional, or if they want to show that Lisbon is feeling the whole situation too fuzzy, and terribly unsettling. It could be… |
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| June |
Date: Wednesday, 23-Oct-13, 7:03 PM | Message # 27 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 585
Status: Offline |
I think that in the torture scene, Jane is trying to use what Kirkland and him have in common to gain some time, making him to talk about his brother, joking, looking relaxed and with the situation under control. Maybe he was sure Lisbon or Hightower were going to save him. Kirkland looks so unbalanced that I can imagine Jane telling himself: "Relax, don't make him more nervous." |
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| beautyfulbabyboy |
Date: Wednesday, 23-Oct-13, 8:38 PM | Message # 28 |
 True Blue
Messages: 782
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I enjoyed this episode very much and can´t wait to see the next.
Everything I wanted to say about it is already been said, nothing to add -
I love to read all the comments and reviews here!  |
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| Mossibecca |
Date: Wednesday, 23-Oct-13, 9:20 PM | Message # 29 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 540
Status: Offline |
I noticed that when Jane was by his car in the car park where Kirkland took him from, he was just closing his phone.....he didn't ring Lisbon or she wouldn't have been looking for him via Grace, so maybe he called or sent a text to Hightower......and thus made her wonder about her part in telling him about Kirkland.....and made her feel that she needed to organise back up....she would obviously go to Lisbon, and Jane would know that the cavalry would be just around the corner.....maybe that is why he was feeling able to try to stall Bob by joking and looking relaxed about the whole thing.
Ds Pallas, a good thought about the reason for Grace's odd behaviour......I hadn't thought of that. |
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| Tina |
Date: Thursday, 24-Oct-13, 9:01 AM | Message # 30 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 2066
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I watched a few times now. I would have loved to see more of Kirkland, the actor did a brilliant job on that. So creepy! Especially in his last episode. I really love that one. I love the dramatic episodes. Can't wait for the next ones. And I really need to know now who RJ is! |
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