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Lorelei
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| Fran |
Date: Monday, 04-Feb-13, 0:34 AM | Message # 1 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
Status: Offline |
This thread was created following this comment in the 'Season5 Tweets by Crew/Cast' by Hayseed:
Am I allowed to dislike the Lorelei character here (Not the actress, she's great) or is that "negativity"?
and my reply:
Of course, there's no problem about expressing a dislike for a particular character, and it would be interesting to know why you dislike her. Maybe you should start a character discussion thread.
This resulted in an interesting discussion, but as it was off-topic for that thread, all the Lorelei comments have been moved here (note that this results in an incorrect time being shown for these posts). |
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| Juney |
Date: Monday, 04-Feb-13, 0:34 AM | Message # 2 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 606
Status: Offline |
I don't think we like the Lorelai character because of what she was willing to do to PJ. |
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| kul65 |
Date: Monday, 04-Feb-13, 0:34 AM | Message # 3 |
 Cobber
Messages: 102
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I like her. I think she has great chemistry with Jane and her character grew a lot on me after "Red Sails". I haven't given up on Heller's statement that Jane really will end up caring for her. |
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| Hayseed |
Date: Monday, 04-Feb-13, 0:35 AM | Message # 4 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 549
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Quote I haven't given up on Heller's statement that Jane really will end up caring for her.
That's probably what I don't like about her. LOL |
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| sorchauna |
Date: Monday, 04-Feb-13, 0:35 AM | Message # 5 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 71
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I didnt like her at first but in the last episode she was in I did start to like her. I like what she represents - hope. First of all, she shows there is possibly a chink in RJ's armour. We know his followers are like a cult and follow him with blind awe. But if he could break someone who seemed to be one of RJ's biggest fans, then it showed that Jane really had a chance at takin RJ down. Secondly, Simon has said before that if Jane was to get romatically involved with someone after his wife for the first time, it should not be Lisbon. And we saw that happen. Again I think after Loreli he realised that he is capable of thinking of moving past his wife and deal with the grief and get close to someone. Again Hope!! |
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| bee |
Date: Monday, 04-Feb-13, 0:35 AM | Message # 6 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1525
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I agree Sorchauna Lorelei has given Jane hope. Hope in finally capturing RJ and seeing an end, to some extent, to his torment. She may have made him realise also that he can move on and perhaps find a future with someone else. However, she must also be a very close ally (mistress?) of RJ not to have already been killed by him after being captured. To think that Jane has slept with Lorelei who may also have slept with the man responsible for his wife and daughter's death is too cruel to think about. Why has she not met the same fate as the others after having been captured? That surely must always be in the back of Jane's mind. He may feel sorry for her, having found out about the death of her sister, but in that regard should we not feel sorry for all of RJ's minions? They may have also been hand-picked for their weakness and vulnerability to further his cause.
On the other hand no-one with any true morals or sense of decency would sink so low as to willingly hurt another human being.
Let us not forget that she seduced Jane at his most vulnerable. She asked him to bring Lisbon's dead body to RJ as a gift. She told RJ's henchman to "beat him up a little". She was willing to cut off two of his fingers. She taunted the word "lover" in front of Lisbon, knowing them to be close. She punched and kicked Jane to the ground in that motel room. All in the name of RJ! She is therefore not totally innocent.
Just my humble opinion!
Message edited by bee - Sunday, 03-Feb-13, 12:35 PM |
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| sorchauna |
Date: Monday, 04-Feb-13, 0:35 AM | Message # 7 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 71
Status: Offline |
I agree she is not innocent but neither is Jane. I think he sees in her the length she is willing to go for RJ and sees hismelf in the way he will do almost anything to get RJ. I dont think she is someone to be underestimate. As bee rightly points out the fact that she is alive, and not killed in prison no doubt means something. I presume RJ knows how much Jane wants her and is willing to leave her alive so he will continue to be lead down a path that RJ wants him to go down. I hope Jane has the upperhand with her but it is still unclear as to her motives. Even if she was to turn her back on RJ, I don't think she could be kept safe and would stay with RJ dispite her sister. The best episodes are with her this season as we seem to get ever closer to RJ when Lorelei is around so Im happy to see the next one she is in.
Message edited by sorchauna - Sunday, 03-Feb-13, 5:17 PM |
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| Tori |
Date: Monday, 04-Feb-13, 0:35 AM | Message # 8 |
Ankle Biter
Messages: 23
Status: Offline |
I agree with Bee. Really though, I can't decide whether I like her or not. Part of me does because of the hope she shows to Jane and the fact that he sees he can move on to some degree. Part of me does not like her because of the whole RJ thing and there's a vibe of something distrustful about her aside from the RJ thing. I am looking forward to the episodes she has left but do we know what happens after her 5 shows this season? Maybe Lorelei does get killed after all? Maybe simply disappears? Sorry, sunday morning musings! |
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| DS_Pallas |
Date: Monday, 04-Feb-13, 0:35 AM | Message # 9 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1979
Status: Offline |
Apparently we seem to all agree here on Emmanuelle Chriqui acting talent. I think Lorelei's character is not written to be amiable.
But little by little the writers show us a more human facet, with a sad past and cracks. She's the pivot character in this 5th season.
I think sochaurna has made a very valid point: of course she's ambiguous, but so is Jane. They are both broken and twisted. The most important is that, through Lorelei, RJ wants to lead Jane down a certain path. He's playing his manipulation game again, and Lorelei is the pawn he uses, otherwise she would have already been killed in prison. I suppose Jane is aware of that. In fact I hope, because his obsession could blind him sometimes.
The only room for manoeuvre he has is Lorelei's free will and he tries desperately to awaken it. Will he succeed this time, after the post Las Vegas failure? Damn Bruno Heller!  |
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| sylvia5993 |
Date: Monday, 04-Feb-13, 0:36 AM | Message # 10 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 538
Status: Offline |
Lorelei has become a pawn in this game of chess. Patrick manipulates people and events to suit himself and that is why he slept with Lorelei, he knew she could lead him to RJ and why after asking her a cuppa, he sets her free and almost kills himself to stay in the game. His only love was the one woman who truly understood him, Angela. That will never be replicated in any other woman, he has set the bar so high for fear of losing her memory. His love for Theresa is influenced by the choices he has made along this pathway and as she keeps him somewhat grounded, he respects and has grown to need her even if he refuses to come to terms with that. You can see his need for closeness with his hugs which are signs of a deeply lonely individual who doesn't give hugs, but uses them. His psyche reaches out for succor. That is the sign of a psychologically disturbed and broken man. |
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| Juney |
Date: Monday, 04-Feb-13, 4:55 PM | Message # 11 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 606
Status: Offline |
Will we be able to comment on other characters here? None specific at the moment, but RJ might crop up later. |
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| Hayseed |
Date: Monday, 04-Feb-13, 6:30 PM | Message # 12 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 549
Status: Offline |
I think the actress is doing a great job - just want to make that clear up front. The fact that she irks me is in part due to her interesting portrayal.
Yes, Lorelei is a pawn, but she seduced a very troubled man because a serial killer told her to, so that the serial killer can then "recruit" the troubled man. Not to mention she was cool with Jane killing Lisbon and was willing to cut off his fingers -she's way deep into the Kool Aid. Jane recognized this and is now trying to "use" her to get to Red John, no doubt about it. But as others have mentioned, the path to this is getting Lorelei to denounce her brainwashing, which is helping her. (at least in my book) I'm okay with him helping her see the light, so to speak.
All I am saying is that I will be very disappointed if they send Jane sailing off into the sunset at the end with this girl as a real romantic interest. That's a cop out for Jane. Even he admits that he and Angela were always running away. He needs someone who will help him face his many demons, not run from them.
Jane's RJ obsession stems from his guilt that he failed his family. That's what Devil's Cherry pointed out. He's not doing it "for" his wife and daughter so much as he is doing it for himself - because he thinks it will ease his guilt.
Lorelei may be the vehicle to give him hope that he will catch Red John, but I don't see her as "hope" that will ultimately help help deal with his emotional scars. Someone who knows and understands him better would have to do that, if he can just let himself off the hook a little bit and allow it to happen. Part of the whole Red John conundrum with Jane is that Red John was punishing him for his "con man" deeds, which Jane now recognizes as wrong as well. Killing Red John will not give him absolution for the things he did before his family was killed.
Obviously, YMMV.
Message edited by Hayseed - Monday, 04-Feb-13, 6:34 PM |
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| Evy |
Date: Monday, 04-Feb-13, 11:00 PM | Message # 13 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1233
Status: Offline |
Emmanuelle C. has declared to play only in 4 or 5 episodes of the season. We have no information on the 6th. If she isn't planned, the writers will make her disappear in one way or another. What would mean she has no future with PJ.  |
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| sorchauna |
Date: Tuesday, 05-Feb-13, 0:30 AM | Message # 14 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 71
Status: Offline |
Well I don't think there is anything romantic between them. I think when it comes to Jane and RJ, he will do anything and sleeping with her I would presume it not really cheating on his wife. I agree with sylvia5993 that it was a means to an end and we know that he will do almost anything (bar giving up Lisbon) for that. But I consider her hope as maybe he knows physically he can be with someone (after all we know he hates to be touched most the time) and that I see has hope that one day he moves on. No way could he substain any coherent relationship with Lorelei. They together are way too much crazy! But she is so interesting because she is a pawn in the game, and seems to be an important one at that. But we have no idea who really is leading her or is Jane only seeing what he wants and things she will lead him to RJ. |
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| Hayseed |
Date: Tuesday, 05-Feb-13, 1:38 AM | Message # 15 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 549
Status: Offline |
Quote I consider her hope as maybe he knows physically he can be with someone (after all we know he hates to be touched most the time)
You make a good point - I hadn't thought of it that way.
Which reminds me of one of my very favorite Mentalist scenes - on the date with Kristina when Jane goes into the bathroom and has a panic attack about being on a date. Wonderful scene, wonderfully acted.
ETA:
The poem supports your theory:
"The boatman has heard, it has bound him
In throes of desire and love.
He's blind to the reefs that surround him,
He sees but the Maiden above.
And now the wild waters awaken
Then boat and the boatman are gone.
And this is what with her singing,
The Lorelei has done."
- "The Lorelei," by Heinrich Heine, English Translation
Message edited by Hayseed - Tuesday, 05-Feb-13, 6:15 AM |
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