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Red John
Fran Date: Friday, 04-Mar-11, 12:52 PM | Message # 1
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A discussion about Red John's identity started under a News item comment. I've copied the comments here so that its easier to continue the chat:

On 2nd March JudeBlue said:

I've a feeling that each Agent will have a back story that will make them a possible Red John suspect.

 
Fran Date: Friday, 04-Mar-11, 12:52 PM | Message # 2
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On 2nd March Fran said:

I think you may be right about looking at each member of the team as a possible RJ or RJ disciple - it would be a good dramatic device.
One of my friends is convinced that Grace is closely connected to RJ - I'm not sure what her reasoning is, but she thinks the fact that Grace has red hair is an important clue.

 
Fran Date: Friday, 04-Mar-11, 12:54 PM | Message # 3
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On 3rd March JudeBlue said:

Grace is high on my list too! My reasons being;

She's the newest member - arriving after Jane.

Yes, the red hair. In one episode someone (not an agent I don't think) called her 'big red'.
She is as tall as a man so - if indeed it was RJ who lifted that chair when Jane was captured - she would've been strong enough to lift it.
The most important clue for me though is her strong beliefs. Remember the episode when they were doing a seance - Grace said that they would be talking to dead people and Jane disagreed. Grace was cross and said 'those you mock'. I think the word 'mock' is important. Grace was very angry but then she softened and apologised for the mention of his wife and child. Did she apologise because she felt sorry for upsetting him or did she apologise because her little rant might have alerted Jane to her strong feelings?

Having said all of that I do have the feeling that the identity of RJ isn't definite yet and the writers are probably chucking little clues in all over the place.

Also high on my list are Dr Linus Wagner and Partridge the forensics guy.

 
Fran Date: Friday, 04-Mar-11, 12:54 PM | Message # 4
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On 4th March Fran said:

I think there could be RJ disciples all over the place, including the 3 that you mention. And yes, the identity of RJ himself may not even have been decided yet.

At one time I thought RJ may be Patrick's father, but the Season 2 finale changed my mind. Because Patrick looked directly into his eyes, so if that was RJ then I think Patrick would have recognised him if it had been anyone close to him.

 
JudeBlue Date: Friday, 04-Mar-11, 2:46 PM | Message # 5
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Thinking about it last night at work I reckon Grace should be high on my list of RJ disciples - he
has someone with access to the CBI computers - who better than Grace?

If the masked person at the end of series 2 was RJ then Patrick would probably recognise their
eyes - although it was dark and the mask only seemed to have small eye slits.

On other forums Minelli seems to be the most 'popular' choice for RJ - I can't see it myself, he didn't
seem to have a nasty side - I hope it's not him, he was responsible for some of my favourite lines.

 
Fran Date: Sunday, 06-Mar-11, 11:11 AM | Message # 6
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Noooooo, I don't think it can be Minelli, he's a sweetie. And Patrick would be a pretty useless mentalist if he couldn't see that Virgil had evil in his heart.

But then I guess that goes for everyone that Patrick works closely with, including Grace. At times, I do find myself partly persuaded by the Grace argument, particularly RJ's messages coming through on her computer. And I agree that she has sometimes appeared slightly fanatical - like when she made the "those you mock" remark and in the pilot episode at the restaurant. I've never really forgiven her for her condescending "you poor sad man" comment.

But then I think, is she really clever enough to be able to fool our remarkably clever and perceptive Patrick. And my answer is - No I don't think she is.

 
JudeBlue Date: Sunday, 06-Mar-11, 3:51 PM | Message # 7
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Would a psychopath be able to fool a mentalist?

There's a coldness about Van Pelt IMO - and Jane has mentioned problems in her past hasn't he? Perhaps she was mentally abused by the football coach father - had all the feeling knocked out of her or something?

wacko

Gosh, we've got another three years of this! LOL.

 
angel Date: Monday, 07-Mar-11, 1:28 PM | Message # 8
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I think the grace point is very interesting and there could be something there. Though not Red John but a desciple. But somehow i don't think bruno would make it one of the team. But you never know if its shock factor he wants to provide and RJ will be revealed at the end so it can be anyone of the team which would shock fans.

I am edging with the nasty forensic guy Partridge. He really irks me. So creepy yet you feel theres more there then you are seeing.

I think for the mole at cbi it will be laughlin - grace boyfriend as i would think he would not be a long term on this show and i don't think they have given up on rigsby/grace as said in paleyfest when discussing get togethers rigsby/vanpelt seems more likely. And the romance happened too fast and now proposal as if he is worming his way into the cbi via grace. Just too fast for me. And theres just something wrong there when i watch him. Gut instinct.

This is all so interesting but as you say we have to wait years to find out and somehow it will definately be worth the wait as i am sure bruno will really come up with someone you would absolutely not have expected so don't be too sure if he is sending out clues as they could be to mis direct you.

 
JudeBlue Date: Wednesday, 09-Mar-11, 10:04 AM | Message # 9
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One of the very interesting RJ aspects for me is that he only twice painted his victim's toenails.
Jane's wife and one other woman - going on memory I think it was the twin where one was abducted and one was saved (is that the right one?).

There must be some significance to that - I'm wondering if those are the only two events where RJ himself committed the murders? That all the others have been done by disciples - leaving RJ much more flexibility to hold down a demanding job - such as forensics, CBI agent, FBI agent etc etc.

 
Fran Date: Thursday, 10-Mar-11, 0:46 AM | Message # 10
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Angel - yes I'm suspicious of creepy Partridge, but as a disciple not RJ. Because he's too skinny - I know, useless logic but that's my instinct confused

I also think Laughlin will turn out to be a baddie of some kind, but did he arrive on the scene too late to be the mole

I'm starting to think I should be looking at all the people in the background and the ones who escort prisoners and guard suspects. There's probably someone with a non-speaking part who's often around, but I never really notice what any of those people look like. When RJ is revealed, we'll be shown loads of clips from previous episodes of this guy working away in the CBI offices. haha

Jude - I'm not absolutely sure about the toenails thing. I know Patrick's wife was the first victim to have this, and I think you're right that the girl in the Season 1 finale also had it done. I don't remember it being mentioned for anyone else. But I definitely think that RJ is only directly responsible for some of the murders, and as you say others have been done by disciples, just from a practical point of view as much as anything else. After all, RJ isn't superhuman so he can't be everywhere.

If the toenails thing is his personal signature, then its something he started doing when he killed Jane's wife. Because we know he was directly responsible for at least one murder before that - the one where he left the forensic evidence that he had to conceal in His Right Red Hand.

Call me crazy crazy but I've toyed with the idea that perhaps a disciple murdered Jane's wife rather than RJ himself. My only reason for thinking about this is because I thought it might be a good twist for Patrick to catch RJ and then discover that he hadn't caught her killer, so then the hunt would have to start all over again in the next season.

 
JudeBlue Date: Thursday, 10-Mar-11, 9:23 AM | Message # 11
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Ah yes, the murder where he left forensics - I'd forgotten that, well remembered.

I don't think your idea is crazy Fran, I think it's fan-blooming-tastic!

I thought of a twist too. Some people think that Patrick is RJ. Of course that would be an enormous story line but I really don't want that to happen - I'm not sure I could rewatch TM if I knew that. However I was wondering if Patrick could've been hypnotised by RJ into murdering his own family - and finding this out near the end. We then had the Rigsby hypnotised epi where it was made clear that someone can't be hypnotised to do something completely beyond their normal behaviour - but we did have the epi where Lisbon couldn't remember what had happened to her and Patrick said that she must have been drugged. wacko

Have you thought of starting a thread about Mentalism? I'm finding it quite fascinating finding out about all these mind games/tricks/techniques etc.

smile

 
Fran Date: Friday, 11-Mar-11, 1:22 PM | Message # 12
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I agree, I would hate Patrick to be RJ, and I honestly can't believe they would do that to us. I don't know if you've seen the interview, but Simon did say that when he first read the script that thought did occur to him, but that on reflection he felt that it wouldn't work.

I also find the techniques of Mentalism fascinating, althouth I don't know much about it. I've seen Derren Brown doing it - it's the part of his act that I most enjoy. And both Simon and Chris Long have mentioned Derren. Did you see the one he did in the department store where the person had to choose an item and he had to guess what they would choose from all the thousands of products, then they showed you how he had influenced them - I thought that was amazing. Please feel free to start a thread, and maybe we can get some examples of real mentalists doing their thing.

 
JudeBlue Date: Sunday, 27-Mar-11, 9:47 PM | Message # 13
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Fran, you've done it again. On the Episode Discussion thread you have come up with the scenario
of Grace being a disciple and Rigsby having to kill her. What a tremendous scene that would be. OMG!!
 
Fran Date: Tuesday, 29-Mar-11, 12:02 PM | Message # 14
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Haha, but I'm not convinced it would be a good idea - Amanda has a lot of fans amongst the male audience. But if she ever decides to take herself off and do something different, then I think this is definitely the way to go evil
 
Fran Date: Wednesday, 04-May-11, 1:39 AM | Message # 15
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This is me clutching at ridiculous straws, but I've got to write it down just in case its what happens, because nobody would believe me if I said afterwards that I'd thought that.

I came up with this idea that RJ or the Mole is one of the people we see in the background at CBI. So I've been trying to notice them - I know, I'm really sad help Anyway, there's this guy I'm sure I've seen a few times, stocky but not fat, average height, with a neatly clipped beard. So if I had any dollar , I would bet on him.

 
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