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Episode Discussion - Season 4 - US pace
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| lenacr |
Date: Wednesday, 20-Jun-12, 9:31 AM | Message # 136 |
 Dinkie-Di
Messages: 181
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I thought Lorelai's knowledge about him liking eggs came from Red John. That's how I, at least, undrestood this point. I watched yet again this episode and am not any wiser as to whether there was sex or not. I am looking forward to the revelations of Season 5. |
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| sylvia5993 |
Date: Wednesday, 20-Jun-12, 5:08 PM | Message # 137 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 538
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Oh! There was sex all right. That was the hook, a gift from RJ. She was wearing his shirt while cooking his eggs and since he probably knew who she was deep down, having intercourse with her was part of his subterfuge or long con. He had to prove that he was completely defeated, to the point of cheating (in his mind) on his dead wife. Anyway that's what my thoughts are, anyone want to think that a cruel man like Patrick could be chaste in this situation can cling to that illusion. |
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| Fran |
Date: Wednesday, 20-Jun-12, 7:20 PM | Message # 138 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
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Quote (sylvia5993) Anyway that's what my thoughts are, anyone want to think that a cruel man like Patrick could be chaste in this situation can cling to that illusion.  |
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| Thrill |
Date: Thursday, 21-Jun-12, 4:30 PM | Message # 139 |
 Dinkie-Di
Messages: 210
Status: Offline |
I do think they had sex why else would he sleep for 12 hours when he is a notoriously bad sleeper ??????
Whether he went into it knowingly ie it was part of the long con. I think probably he did.....
As he said to Lisbon one of the beauties of the long con is that it is close to the truth and that's what makes it believable. PJ is dancing a very fine line
I still think an explosive bombshell would be Lorelei being pregnant..... (and RJ having timed it all to maximize that possibility...)
It would have been interesting to know what happened between PJ finishing the soup and then them watching TV lying on his bed. Who suggested watch TV? Did PJ want to in order to keep things slow? Did he have to psych himself up (to be unfaithful)? Did he just want to appear unsure of himself as he was so "depressed". Did Lorelei suggest it. So as not to overwhelm him or to take it slowly? How much does she like him? And of course why is she RJ girl in the first place?
Gosh the are so many arcs to this that could play out..... |
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| Juney |
Date: Thursday, 21-Jun-12, 5:26 PM | Message # 140 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 606
Status: Offline |
Just been thinking (?) In what capacity would PJ want to join Red John. RJ murdered his family, no way would Patrick want to be part of his criminal gang. Don't understand the thinking behind this.  As to the sex thing, I go with the Hypnosis, as I think I've said somewhere else. I visit so many threads, I get lost. My fault Fran not yours. |
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| AgentM |
Date: Thursday, 21-Jun-12, 9:35 PM | Message # 141 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 576
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Quote (Juney) In what capacity would PJ want to join Red John. RJ murdered his family, no way would Patrick want to be part of his criminal gang. Don't understand the thinking behind this.
Juney, he doesn't really want to join Red John. He just thinks he'll be able to get close enough this way so that he can exact his revenge. 
Quote (Thrill) I do think they had sex why else would he sleep for 12 hours when he is a notoriously bad sleeper ??????
I get what you're saying but who's to say he didn't take a sleeping pill? He could also have felt some relief at knowing that he may have a further advantage over RJ - if indeed he has hypnotised Lorelai. Plus there comes a point where the body has to sleep - maybe he just was as tired as he said he was.
I know, I know, I could be clutching at straws! - I just really believe he does have some morals, especially when it comes to his wife. His loyalty to her is the only thing he has left that he can do for her - except for killing RJ that is. He wasn't loyal enough to her in life - he wouldn't give up the 'fake psychic' thing for her, even though she asked - his self imposed chastity could be a way of expressing his true remorse.
Would love to have been a fly on the wall for some of their arguments about it! I think it was a fiery relationship as well as a deeply loving one, I don't know why.  |
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| Fran |
Date: Friday, 22-Jun-12, 2:09 AM | Message # 142 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
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Quote (AgentM) I get what you're saying but who's to say he didn't take a sleeping pill?  |
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| Juney |
Date: Friday, 22-Jun-12, 2:00 PM | Message # 143 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 606
Status: Offline |
Well we all have our theories, I don't think any of us want to think of him being conned himself. As to my query about him working with RJ, I was wondering why RJ would think he would want to. Power over him I suppose, but I'm still confused.
Another thought (it takes time to work through my poor brain) towards the end of the episode Lorelai calls PJ lover not her lover just 'lover'. It didn't sound very American. It was very Bristol (England) sounding. Does anyone know where Bruno comes from? |
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| justlook3 |
Date: Friday, 22-Jun-12, 10:21 PM | Message # 144 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 501
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Actually using the term "Lover" like that seems very old film noir movies. Where the femme fatale dangles a long cigarette out of her mouth and drawls "You don't know me at all, Lover" before she pulls out a pearl handled pistol. I think Bruno was going for the classic bad girl with that turn of phrase. |
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| Juney |
Date: Saturday, 23-Jun-12, 12:34 PM | Message # 145 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 606
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You're right justlook3. I didn't think of that, but it's obvious now you say. Did you think it sounded natural though. |
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| lenacr |
Date: Saturday, 23-Jun-12, 1:55 PM | Message # 146 |
Dinkie-Di
Messages: 181
Status: Offline |
My opinion is that Lorelai calls Jane 'lover' in front of Lisbon to make her jealous, somehow to intrude into their special relationship (Jane' and Lisbon's) and to create a rift - at least she is trying. |
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| AgentM |
Date: Saturday, 23-Jun-12, 5:11 PM | Message # 147 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 576
Status: Offline |
Quote (Juney) As to my query about him working with RJ, I was wondering why RJ would think he would want to. Power over him I suppose, but I'm still confused.
I think maybe RJ is just as stubborn and arrogant as Jane. Maybe RJ thought he could do to Jane the same as Jane thought he could do to RJ - it was a way of getting close to exact more pain/revenge.  Reminiscent of the 'I think you manipulated me into thinking I manipulated you into coming with me' scenario!!
Or maybe it was another test - I think RJ knew that Jane would try to con him in some way even tho' he claims that Jane 'strung him along a good while'. I think he is still one step ahead of PJ in that regard. |
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| justlook3 |
Date: Saturday, 23-Jun-12, 6:47 PM | Message # 148 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 501
Status: Offline |
Quote You're right justlook3. I didn't think of that, but it's obvious now you say. Did you think it sounded natural though.
I didn't see it as odd as an American. Personally I'd never used that term (I don't like it and I have no idea why, but then again I've been married since I was 22), but I know people who have. And I've seen it in other American shows in the same sort of mocking way that Lorelai used. |
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