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Episode Discussion - Season 4 - US pace
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| Fran |
Date: Saturday, 18-Feb-12, 8:51 PM | Message # 16 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
Status: Offline |
I don't think its true that Jane didn't know what Erica was up to, he said several times that he thought she would try to escape and in fact he thwarted one of her escape plans.
I can understand people being disappointed in his choice of woman, but I don't think Jane has ever been portrayed as a perfect man who never makes a mistake. Frequently in life people make bad choices or act on impulse and sometimes they regret doing so.
Personally I like to see some evidence of Jane's weaknesses and vulnerabilities, it shows that he's a warm-blooded human being, a complex individual who's struggling with life and someone I want to understand better. The challenge for Simon and the writers is to keep the audience rooting for him despite his flaws. |
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| justlook3 |
Date: Saturday, 18-Feb-12, 9:07 PM | Message # 17 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 501
Status: Offline |
Well, he is a murderer as well. I know the show wants us to forget that fact and even Lisbon has let that pass. Sometimes it makes me cringe when he starts in on his holier than thou comments toward the killer of the week (it always did, but it's worse now).
I agree with you Fran. There's that old Aretha Franklin song, "Who's zooming who". She thought she was playing him, but did she? Did she really? She played Wainwright certainly. But Jane, hmm, jury is still out.
I thought it was interesting that for one moment he thought with something other than his head. It's happened before, in season one actually. He was very attracted to the widow who turned out to be the killer. That time he fought it off. And by the way in season one, I didn't realize Jane was supposed to be celibate. Any man who claims that he can seduce any woman isn't. After the show found it's footing things changed in his character.
It wasn't the best episode of this season, but I didn't think it was as horrible as the majority made it out to be. I guess I'm happy being in the minority in this.
What I'm hoping is that this is the switch flipping that's been eluded to in interviews. That maybe he can start to look at more suitable women in a different light. |
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| bluemoon_999 |
Date: Saturday, 18-Feb-12, 9:23 PM | Message # 18 |
Blow-In
Messages: 19
Status: Offline |
All this criticism towards Jane honestly caught me by surprise. The show has never portrayed Jane as a saint, far from it. He is a troubled and damaged man with mentalism powers and great wit. We all know the different phases of Jane's past. Like that is not enough to understand all the things - good, bad and controversial - he did and why. Why use a good man's criteria to judge him??? I think his character is the most fascinating one of all time because it got so many different layers, and because it's played by Simon who adds another charmig layer to it. One of my biggest problems with shippers is they see nothing else on the show other than shipping moments, no matter they really existed or not. Now this great episode is being unfairly criticized/overlooked because Jane "betrayed" Lisbon and kissed a murderer??? Jisbon only exists in shippers' minds so far. Kissing a woman he shouldn't is something Jane would do if she is the right candidate. We cannot deny Erica is a very attractive woman and has the greatest sexual chemistry with Jane. The kissing is no doubt morally controversial but very in charater. Kudos to Ken and Bruno for this very brave episode, which is amazing almost in every detail. I rank it as Top 1 of this season so far, followed by Blinking Red Light. |
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| June |
Date: Sunday, 19-Feb-12, 0:40 AM | Message # 19 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 585
Status: Offline |
I've just watched the episode and I have to say that I totally agree with Fran, justlook3 and bluemoon. This show is great because it's different. It's not about good people and bad people but real. Jane is a dark character from the beginning of the show, sad and complex. We can't forget that. He's changed and Lisbon knows that. Erica is only a part of this change, nothing else. Enjoy the way. Trust Bruno and the writers. I think season four is going to be a good one, I don't know why but I feel something huge is going to happen and they are preparing us for that. I loved the kiss, he needed it, touching.
Message edited by June - Sunday, 19-Feb-12, 2:49 PM |
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| bluemoon_999 |
Date: Sunday, 19-Feb-12, 3:32 PM | Message # 20 |
Blow-In
Messages: 19
Status: Offline |
Since I literally couldn't rest in peace without expressing how much I loved this episode and why, I posted 2 VERY long love letters on my tumblr. I don't want to waste too much space here, so here the links:
http://i-love-patrick-jane.tumblr.com/post/17815899008/oh-war-of-roses
http://i-love-patrick-jane.tumblr.com/post....he-case |
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| June |
Date: Sunday, 19-Feb-12, 6:23 PM | Message # 21 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 585
Status: Offline |
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| justlook3 |
Date: Sunday, 19-Feb-12, 6:54 PM | Message # 22 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 501
Status: Offline |
Aww, thank you for that. I've seen so much venom toward this episode on twitter, forums and LJ that I just kept thinking, maybe I watched a different episode or I'm just an idiot. 
Course there was an episode earlier this season that got universal praise but I found boring as all get out, so maybe I'm just a bit different . . . . |
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| Fran |
Date: Monday, 20-Feb-12, 1:30 AM | Message # 23 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
Status: Offline |
Thanks bluemoon, I enjoyed reading your 'love letters'. Interesting thought about who the Roses in the title are - before watching the episode I'd also assumed it would be Lisbon & Erica, but I think you're right that maybe it was Jane & Erica. I've read all of Agatha Christie's books and totally agree with your comparison. I saw how the trick with the boxes worked but don't know if you want me to tell you.
By the way, there seems to be a general feeling that the majority of fans disliked this episode, which I think is not true. It seems to be mainly Lisbon fans who didn't like it and I think they're just more visible than other fans. I checked out the feedback to MentalistWriter and the majority of people who commented (over 60%) were very positive about the episode. |
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| justlook3 |
Date: Monday, 20-Feb-12, 4:37 AM | Message # 24 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 501
Status: Offline |
Quote By the way, there seems to be a general feeling that the majority of fans disliked this episode, which I think is not true. It seems to be mainly Lisbon fans who didn't like it and I think they're just more visible than other fans. I checked out the feedback to MentalistWriter and the majority of people who commented (over 60%) were very positive about the episode.
Well that's refreshing. This has been by far the most positive place about this episode. Even though who disliked it had well thought out mature reasons why. Maybe it's because it seems like we're older fans on this forum? Certainly shippers are always loudest and so are younger fans. Hmm, still it is nice to know that others liked it. I actually came bouncing upstairs smiling after it was over only to get confronted by all of this hate. What a downer! I need new friends. LOL. |
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| lionking |
Date: Monday, 20-Feb-12, 10:54 AM | Message # 25 |
Blow-In
Messages: 14
Status: Offline |
I am based in the UK so I haven't seen the episode yet, but I confess I am addicted to reading forum reactions in advance ... naughty I know but I have no willpower.
The TV Fanatic site recaps every episode and it may be some comfort to see that the vast majority of comments on this site are positive.
My WebPage
From my brief scan of the comments there and elsewhere it seems, as Fran says, that fans that watch for Lisbon were the most disgruntled. |
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| Tori |
Date: Monday, 20-Feb-12, 7:17 PM | Message # 26 |
Ankle Biter
Messages: 23
Status: Offline |
For what it's worth, I think I found what may be the perfect song for Patrick and Erica---Bad Romance by Lady GaGa.  |
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| bluemoon_999 |
Date: Monday, 20-Feb-12, 8:46 PM | Message # 27 |
Blow-In
Messages: 19
Status: Offline |
Thanks Fran. You saw how that trick worked? Please do tell. I saw nothing  I am dying to know |
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| Fran |
Date: Monday, 20-Feb-12, 10:15 PM | Message # 28 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
Status: Offline |
OK, I'll put it in a spoiler tag in case some people don't want to be told.
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| bluemoon_999 |
Date: Tuesday, 21-Feb-12, 11:09 AM | Message # 29 |
Blow-In
Messages: 19
Status: Offline |
Thanks. I have to watch it again. Too bad no one uploaded this clip to youtube. I loved it so much. His showmanship is always great fun to watch. I knew he needed Erica for a good reason. No one from the CBI team could take this role. |
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| angel |
Date: Friday, 24-Feb-12, 1:46 PM | Message # 30 |
 Cobber
Messages: 131
Status: Offline |
My last thought is the comment from those who did not like it kept saying 'it was like i was watching another show and not the mentalist'.
Personnaly i have no clue whatsoever what these people mean when saying this and to be honest it really irked me big time 
But yes from comments i read the majority loved it and so they should. I am not a shipper and never will be. |
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