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Episode Discussion - Season 4 - US pace
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| Fran |
Date: Sunday, 22-Jan-12, 1:28 AM | Message # 1 |
 Fair Dinkum
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A discussion thread for those watching at US pace |
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| Geli |
Date: Sunday, 22-Jan-12, 9:10 AM | Message # 2 |
Surfie
Messages: 92
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Episode 4.11 Always Bet on Red
What I didn't like:
Scenes felt "chopped up" over the whole story, meaning to me the telling of the story felt "jumpy". Not sure whether this was done intentionally by the writer or/and director. If it was intentional, wonder why.
The interrogation scene was too long, and after the killer had been arrested, giving a long explanation was over the top; would have preferred more scenes with PJ instead.
The scene with the widow, Lisbon and PJ was too short in my opinion. The dialogue felt too rushed and cliche, though plausible regarding the facts.
PJ answering his cell in a certain location - wouldn't the FBI be able to tell where he received the call if they ever checked?
What I liked:
The series regularly mentions themes occuring in the time we live in, here it includes the real serious consequences people affected by violent crime can suffer: suicide.
Simon Baker's acting in the whole episode was very impressive, especially the scene with Lisbon in his loft!!
Prayer at the end: "Lord, make me an instrument of your peace ..."
PJ and Lisbon agreeing that hunting a monster has changed him.
Thoughts:
Somehow PJ's bed in the scene where Lisbon comes to tell him something, looks like he's lying in a coffin. His flat expression "oh" to what she tells him makes me wonder whether he's depressed. What was he thinking looking at the person on the table in the morgue before he leaves, paying his respect, or has he thought of ending like this himself. Honestly, what he did in the morgue made my mouth drop, and faking and planting the note... Mentioning to Cho and VP that he has to find a h. ... He seems to be leaving traces of his actions all over the place. Darcy is not stupid, we already know she'll be back. Lisbon should question and stand up to him more. Enjoyed this episode even though I found it shocking. |
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| sylvia5993 |
Date: Monday, 23-Jan-12, 1:30 AM | Message # 3 |
Bee's Knees
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I also thought that the scene with the widow was unproductive, his stealing into her house to plant the letter and reading it at the funeral was a bit off also, why him? Lisbon is right to worry because Darcy is not stupid and she is coming back along with the Visualize crew to throw more R.J. into the mix. Simon did express his ideas about having episodes that feature more of the CBI members, but the most of these have failed to endear these ones except perhaps for Cho, who always seems to give Jane the benefit of the doubt since the beginning. Jane is plunging deeper into a dark abyss, is he going insane or more and more troubled? I enjoy the arc much more than disjointed episodes with too much comedic murders, if I can all murder funny (a la Psych). Baker is such a good actor, let him go down the path and see if he can mke us like the unlikeable Patrick Jane. |
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| Fran |
Date: Monday, 23-Jan-12, 9:26 PM | Message # 4 |
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I thoroughly enjoyed this episode, and it got off to an entertaining start with Lisbon and Cho running towards the explosion and Patrick running away from it. Although my main interest is always Patrick, I like the Summer/Cho dynamic, she brings humour and Cho’s little reactions are a treat. But I do feel a little concerned for Summer’s safety, seeing as she was so blatant about being a police informer.
I thought there were some excellent Jane/Lisbon scenes. Following Darcy’s visit, I liked the way Jane tried to distract Lisbon with the ‘great legs’ comment, but Lisbon is wise to him now, so she got to have the conversation she wanted. The Lisbon/Jane scene in the loft was brimming with tension and Patrick looked truly haunted and briefly lost his cool, something we don’t often see, so I think this indicated how worried he was.
I also particularly enjoyed the more light-hearted scene with Patrick doing his thing and wrapping up the case in 5 minutes. I thought ‘hunting monsters changes you’ was a great, memorable line, and in the closing scenes, the music and brief distance shot gave me the chilling feeling that Red John was watching them.
My favourite scene though was Patrick reading the letter at the funeral, because it gave us a wonderfully moving performance from Simon and a heartfelt look from Lisbon. The coincidence of the widow asking Patrick to read the letter didn’t bother me at all, after all even great literary fiction is full of coincidences and other plot devices to help the story along.
Having said all that, what I liked most about this episode was that it challenged me to think about the morality of Patrick’s actions. Clearly what he did was wrong, but other people did benefit. Perhaps sometimes the end justifies the means, although I’m not sure it does here. Patrick was caught between a rock and a hard place, so he dug himself into an even deeper hole. He’s not going to get away with it, and I’m very much looking forward to seeing how the repercussions play out, and how he’s going to clamber his way out. |
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| justlook3 |
Date: Tuesday, 24-Jan-12, 0:57 AM | Message # 5 |
 Bee's Knees
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I got the impression too that Patrick spent some time with the widow, he showed her into Lisbon's office, made himself seem sympathetic to her situation, helping her get her husband's body released, etc. She let the very man who'd killed her daughter into her home after all, thinking he was just a nice man who cared. So it would seem that she handed off the letter to the sympathetic stranger as opposed to someone she knew who might judge her and her husband. And after all, it is a tv show, coincidences and plot devices are pretty much how they work.
I too am torn about how I feel about Patrick's actions. When I was watching I was outraged at Jane (who also lost a child to a serial killer *and* is a widower) taking advantage of another man's pain to protect his own hind. But then I saw how comforted the widow was with the false knowledge that her husband avenged her child's death. Given that they left their child's room untouched and the husband was spiraling toward madness, I guess I can see kindred spirits to Jane.
I'm interested to see how much darker Jane is going to get. And he seems to be taking Lisbon down with him. I know alot of people on the Internet bemoan that there never seems to be consequences to Jane's actions on the show. In a way, I understand why. If real world consequences were taken, there wouldn't be a show. LOL. The prosecution would have entered a series of charges instead of just the one and Jane would have been found guilty of second degree murder or manslaughter, one of them. He'd be in prison. The team would have been suspended and probably fired, especially Lisbon. So instead, they have to skirt around those consequences and go more mental and emotional. How far is the show going to let Jane go? I mean, I know darker shows are all the rage on the paid cable services, but this is CBS.
Anyway, back to this episode. Baker and Tunney really knocked this one out of the park. The two of them are so good at the non-verbal communication that it's almost as if you are watching real life partners at work. I loved that moment when they're talking about where he'd be if the truth about Red John came out. The look from Simon, the dawning realization on Robin's face. Like yeah, screwed to kingdom come is where he'd be.
So much creepy in this episode too. Does always make you wonder why RJ hasn't come after Lisbon. Unless she's a plaything to him like Patrick is. |
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| Fran |
Date: Thursday, 26-Jan-12, 3:23 PM | Message # 6 |
Fair Dinkum
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Episode 4.12 My Bloody Valentine
I’m usually less keen on episodes which focus on one of the other team members, but I do enjoy Tom Szentgyorgyi’s episodes, some of which are amongst my favourites. And I thought this one bowled along nicely, holding my attention throughout.
I felt that the Grace/Craig storyline played out well, and I think Grace dealing with the aftermath of the Craig situation was something we needed to see. I’m still not sure if we’ve seen the last of it though.
We didn’t get many Jane/Lisbon scenes, but I liked the ones we got, which showed them to be mutually supportive and in-tune with eachother. One of my favourite Patrick scenes was the card trick one where he hypnotised the thug. And I also found the scene where he got Porchetto drunk very entertaining.
I have to admit I hadn’t seen the Sarah pregnancy situation coming. I find it difficult to imagine Rigsby as a father, and I’ve never believed him to have feelings of long-term commitment to Sarah, so I’m interested to see how that storyline is going to play out.
I thought the final scene with Patrick and Grace was particularly good. Their friendship has sort of crept up on me, although I felt it was played with emotional detachment, so I still believe theirs to be a fairly superficial relationship.
As far as Patrick’s concerned, I felt this was a filler episode, but I thought it was quality TV, well-written, well-performed and enjoyable to watch. |
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| Geli |
Date: Saturday, 04-Feb-12, 6:44 PM | Message # 7 |
Surfie
Messages: 92
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Episode 4.13 Red is the New Black
I enjoyed watching this show. Nice that there were more scenes with Patrick Jane, right from the start. Owain did a good job portraying the feelings concerning the situation his character Rigsby finds himself in (I try not to include spoilers). Real life can be this way.
I thought the new boss' behavior should have at least raised some eyebrows with Lisbon and the team, but they all just nodded, maybe this is the way he interacts and we just haven't seen it before.
The person who killed the fashion designer to me is another example of how shallow humans can be.
Jane took Darcy showing up again totally in stride. He seemed a bit down at times or quieter than usual. But why would 'RJ' or whoever kill this particular victim? Why was the person wrapped in so much plastic? There would be a blood trail, blood on the killer's clothes? Killed where? Where was the smiley face? That whole scene had me quite sitting 'on the edge of my seat'. Can't wait to see how this storyline goes on... Maybe Roy is not RJ? No clue... |
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| sylvia5993 |
Date: Sunday, 05-Feb-12, 5:37 AM | Message # 8 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 538
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I think watching Jane with the feather was hilarious. That Lisbon taunted him about not finding out who the killer was proved that he can miss some clues (remember the Coffin incident in the 3rd season, pink Chanel). Rosalind calling after R.J. visits and Darcy getting involved was quite brilliant, the poor blind girl seemed in a trance much like Kristina after her time with R.J. The murdered morgue attendant was dtrange, I would have assumed that either Darcy or Rosalind would be the ones to give up their life for R.J.'s amusement. Patrick has a lot to answer for. |
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| Fran |
Date: Tuesday, 14-Feb-12, 1:12 AM | Message # 9 |
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The first time I watched this, I found the Darcy storyline so compelling that I wasn't that interested in the 'case of the week'. But I appreciated it more on 2nd viewing and there were some lovely moments.
I really like the Susan Darcy character and wouldn't mind seeing a closer friendship developing between her and Patrick.
Like Geli, I don't understand why RJ killed the morgue attendant and didn't leave his signature smiley. I've thought about possible reasons and can't decide which one I favour. Ever since Simon said that the RJ storyline was going to get very twisted, I've been eagerly anticipating the build up to the season finale, and so far I've not been disappointed - great stuff! |
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| Tori |
Date: Wednesday, 15-Feb-12, 2:49 PM | Message # 10 |
Ankle Biter
Messages: 23
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At First Blush: Loved all the references to red; Cab, Cab again, etc. But, what was with all the biblical quotes? First: To whom much is given much is expected. Second: Ask and you shall receive. Third: No good deed goes unpunished. |
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| Geli |
Date: Wednesday, 15-Feb-12, 6:21 PM | Message # 11 |
Surfie
Messages: 92
Status: Offline |
I enjoyed this episode. Different in that it was not a CBI case originally. Patrick must realize that he does have a gift to help people solve crimes. He must have felt compelled to get involved since to him it was sooo obvious that the accused was innocent. Running away with Lisbon's sandwich so funny!
Loved when the prosecutor said that for Patrick he has "two seconds", that's a compliment showing that he takes Patrick serious. Can appreciate the biblical quotes. Christian content on the show before: Lisbon praying in the car, Hightower praying before eating, probably more I can't think of right now. Lisbon appears to have worn her cross underneath her sweater in this episode.
Rigsby asked Cho whether he'd tried Yoga for his back. The NY Times had an article this January 5th about the dangers of yoga, so not sure this would be good for Cho's back, but of course I'm not a MD. (Besides, imo, there can be psychological and spiritual dangers with certain types of yoga and meditation, which even C.G. Jung - Owain was reading a book by him - was aware of.) Hopefully he won't get addicted to those painpills! Maybe Cho will have backsurgery like Simon did...
I found the husband, played by Ian Kahn, hard to read, meaning found it difficult to interpret how he felt about his wife, agree with Patrick he must have suspected she was having an affair.
The scene at the vineyard with them sitting on the patio showing the beautiful view must have been very cold to shoot since on occasion I noticed the breath vapor when the actors spoke, also a lot of their body language indicated the actors felt cold. If it was that cold they could have shot part of the scene inside.
Driving up to the dead man's house painted a good picture of the rough neighborhood, in stark contrast the very well kept property and house of the old lady across the street. Kathryn Joosten played it very well. Good point that old age can be a terrifying time of life.
The scene with Summer and Cho in the elevator, her knocking down the papers and then kissing him imo was a bit unrealistic, but I guess the fans that want to see them together will like this development.
PJ is an extremey good liar, like when he so totally convincing said he needs a new identity. Will someone use the CD they took from the man when they arrested him in the garage? Why did the prosecutor say Lisbon, not something in the water, was the problem that Jane took this case?
Look forward to the Morena Baccarin interview on Late Late Night... tonight. Can't wait for the next "The Mentalist" episode ... keep up the great work team Mentalist!! |
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| Fran |
Date: Friday, 17-Feb-12, 1:48 AM | Message # 12 |
Fair Dinkum
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Quote (Tori) what was with all the biblical quotes?
Quote (Geli) Running away with Lisbon's sandwich so funny! 
I liked the reverse psychology Patrick used on the old lady, I've used that technique successfully myself on a few occasions.
It seems to me that Grace still has anger management issues that need to be addressed.
As for Cho & Summer  (although I also didn't find the scene particularly convincing) |
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| Fran |
Date: Saturday, 18-Feb-12, 5:26 PM | Message # 13 |
Fair Dinkum
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4.15 War of the Roses
I loved this episode, mainly because it did my heart good to see Patrick re-connecting with his libido, paving the way for him to be able to fall in love again. I thought the scene in the hotel room played out beautifully - I love seeing Simon doing these type of scenes, his body seems to melt towards the woman in such a sensuous way, and then when he pulled away we got to see Patrick's multi-layered emotions, which Simon is also so good at portraying.
We've seen some hints in recent episodes that Patrick is starting to feel the need to connect with someone, so I feel this physical attraction to Erica was an essential step to that being possible. Obviously not with Erica who is totally unsuitable, but with someone with whom he can find happiness again. I'm not sure if Lisbon and Jane are right for eachother, but if they do ever get together, I'd much prefer her to be his final destination rather than just a part of his journey.
I could understand Lisbon's irritation at the situation - there may have been some jealousy about Patrick there, but I think it was more general than that because we saw her being annoyed at Ron catering to Erica's every whim. I've certainly had similar feelings about beautiful, manipulative women who men fawn over!
I enjoyed the Wayne/Sarah scenes, the pre-natal class was amusing although a little too long for me. I've always liked Sarah and like her even more for refusing Rigsby's proposal. Not much Cho humour in this episode, but I also enjoyed his brief response to Van Pelt. |
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| bee |
Date: Saturday, 18-Feb-12, 6:20 PM | Message # 14 |
 Fair Dinkum
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Unfortunately I don't agree with you Fran as I was disappointed with this episode. Bear with me here. For me it was too unbelievable (even in Jane's World). Previously Jane had been at great pains to out-wit Erika and imprison her but now seemed only too willing to set her free! I can only assume that when he nearly drowned a while ago he lost a few brain cells! My first thought was that Lisbon would punch him on the nose (I'll get in line). Also what has happened to Lisbon's authority? In the old days she would have at least argued with Jane.
Leaving the prison it seemed Lisbon was the only one suspicious of Erika's motives. Even Luther Wainwright, who incidentally thinks Jane is a clinical psychopath, didn't question his sanity at this point, and the fact that they were, in effect, letting a convicted killer go free. Where is Gale Bertram when you need him? I feared Lisbon was fighting a losing battle here and since when has Jane run the CBI???
Then came the awful feeling of deja vu in the hotel room when creepy Erika sidled up to Jane once more. Does this woman never give up? Even Jane knew what she was up to but (and this is where his missing brain cells come into play) he still kissed her. Now I am a Jisbon fan but am not adverse to Jane forming any relationship but this a cold-hearted killer - PLEASE. Could he not regain his libido with someone NICE. Everyone could see what Erika was up to and had no intention of going back to prison, everyone except of course the Mentalist himself! Also when he said he "needed" Erika, Lisbon's face said it all. At this point I could have cheerfully punched him on the nose myself!
Now that Erika is free I fear she may, at some later date, try and seduce Patrick for a THIRD time. I hope not as this could get quite boring (yawn). Would Jane have been so amused if it had been Red John who had escaped his clutches? I think not. Will there be any repercussions for Jane, seeing that it was his idea to let Erika out of prison in the first place. Probably not as he seems to get away with everything. It will probably be poor Lisbon who gets the blame!
When Simon said that Season 4 will get darker in content I thought he was referring to the RJ storyline but I now fear for Jane's sanity. I have lost all sympathy for Jane (as you can probably tell, sorry) and now realise what Lisbon has to put up with. Suffice to say that I won't be watching this episode again, if only to save Lisbon's humiliation. The only good thing to come out of it is that Jane (hopefully) will be able to move on now and find someone worthy, and things will get back to normal soon and I can once again feel some empathy for Jane.
Message edited by bee - Saturday, 18-Feb-12, 7:39 PM |
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| Tori |
Date: Saturday, 18-Feb-12, 8:07 PM | Message # 15 |
Ankle Biter
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I agree with bee inso far as getting back to normal soon----like the next episode. I, too, thought that season 4 would delve further into the RJ story line, especially with where the last one left off, and possible teasers about Jane's sanity. I do agree that Jane is a man and those needs, after I think 7 + years would happen once again, this didn't feel like the right way nor the right woman. I don't want a lasting relationship so early in the show's life as we discussed before but one night to "get it out of his system" would suffice. A relationship or going too much further with the Erica story line could prove detrimental to the remainder of the show. It would change Jane and distract him from RJ and who he is on the show. Like bee said, he was the only one who didn't see what Erica was up to. Like they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. |
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