Edit by Fran: This comment has been removed. Out of consideration for other members, please use spoiler tags with a warning, as I requested in Raven's post.
I don't want to risk someone else posting the information without a spoiler tag, so I'm posting it again.
This is unofficial spoiler information that may reveal Red John's identity. As some people may not want to read this, any discussion about this information must be in spoiler tags with an adequate warning.
Fran This is unofficial spoiler information that may reveal Red John's identity.
The information may be inaccurate, or of course it could be a flashback scene.
I do not know if the site "imdb" is reliable and effectively (even if some people think that Partridge is not dead) it can be a flashback scene to explain something.
Message edited by Evy - Sunday, 10-Nov-13, 10:06 PM
Just uploaded my version of the final showdown between Jane and Red John. Wanted to get it up before we found out for real!!! Oh, the pressure!
Not to beg (well, shucks, actually I am begging...I only get better with feedback!) but I would love to hear your comments - you can reply in the fanfiction thread on this site, or by PM, or on the fanfiction site at the end of the story. I really am desperate for truthful (even if negative) feedback.
Here's the link Hope it works, if not, I guess typing it in might:
Apologies for putting this shameless plug here, Fran. I'll remove it if you're not happy....I just got so excited that I'd finished it and wanted the maximum amount of honest people to read it!!!
Excerpt – Interview only (excludes Episode Recap preamble) - PART 1
Is the information that Bret Stiles only has a couple of weeks to live trustworthy? Ken Woodruff: We should definitely trust that, especially given Jane's trust of that. Any time [Jane] buys into it, which he does in this episode, it's pretty safe to say that it's trustworthy.
Does that make the case for Stiles being Red John stronger or weaker? On the one hand, is he physically capable of committing all these murders? On the other hand, he might be motivated to finish his mission before he dies. Woodruff: You brought up both sides of it, which is exactly what we were sort of hoping for. He is a Red John suspect. I think he's been one of the strongest Red John suspects since his character's introduction, and you get to see him I think in a vulnerable way that we haven't really seen him in before. He's on the run. He's trapped by the FBI. He's forced to live sort of like Julian Assange in this consulate. So maybe what we're hoping is you think a little bit less of him. You think maybe he is on his way out and not capable, just because you sort of seem to feel a little empathy for him. On the other hand, if we are getting to the end of Red John, it's sort of perfect timing. Maybe he's resolving some final things. And the line "a dying man does not fear death" I think could mean a lot, just given how truthful that can be. He has nothing to lose at this point.
There are also some key moments in the episode between Jane and Lisbon. Lisbon, for the first time, says that she wouldn't stop Jane from killing Red John. Should we believe her? Woodruff: I wanted people to believe it in the scene, but Jane sort of calls out exactly what the truth is. He sarcastically says, "So let me get this straight. After 20 years in law enforcement, you're suddenly changing your opinion." I think it is a lie on Lisbon's part, and I think Jane's calling that out. It's one of the reasons for his deception later on, because he knows that she's a good person in spite of herself. She wouldn't be able to go through with this, and I think Jane knows that by now.
That's their classic dichotomy. Lisbon is very by the book, whereas Jane's motivated by a personal need for revenge and doesn't feel the need to play by the rules. Woodruff: Absolutely. And we said it early on in the series, where he says, "When I find Red John, I'm going to kill him." And she says, "I'm going to stop you." It's a lie for sure in this episode. But she really means it. She wants to stop him from doing this. The other thing in the script is, she does believe he's sort throwing his life away if he does [kill Red John]. It's going to have some serious repercussions.
Is there also a sense of them wanting to protect each other? Jane wanting to protect Lisbon by not putting her in a position of having to stop him, and Lisbon not wanting him to do this on his own? Woodruff: I think it's very selfless, and it sort of represents the deep caring and the level of love, in a way, that they have for each other. It absolutely means it's more dangerous for Jane to do something like this on his own, but he's willing to sort of risk that if it means protecting Lisbon. And vice versa. She could be throwing her career away and she could be throwing her life away if she goes along with this and isn't able to stop him. And I think they're both willing to take that chance for the other person.
But for Jane, is him leaving Lisbon on the cliff solely because he wants to protect her, or is it also that he has a need to finish this by himself? Woodruff: I think it's somewhere sort of in the middle. That's how I wanted to write it. At the end of the day, when push comes to shove, I think he wouldn't let anyone stand in his way, even if that means hurting Lisbon to a certain extent. When he ditches her and drives off at the beach, that's not a nice thing to have done, by any means. (Laughs). I laughed every single time we filmed that scene. I got a kick out of it. But it's a sad, hurtful thing to have done. ... My wife leaned over and punched me in the arm when she watched that. At the end of the day, [Jane's] wife and daughter were murdered by this man, and I don't think he's going to stop at anything, really.
From TVGuide - The Mentalist: Did Jane's Plan Backfire? Interview with Ken Woodruff
Contains EPISODE SPOILERS 6.06 Fire And Brimstone
Excerpt – Interview only - PART 2
Before he ditches her though, Jane has a nice speech where he tells Lisbon how much she means to him. It seems genuine, but is it just a diversion tactic? Could it also be his way of saying goodbye in case he doesn't survive the confrontation with Red John? Woodruff: I'm so glad you thought that it played on those different levels, because that was the hope for it. I think absolutely he wants the opportunity to say goodbye if something does go wrong. Also, he was being deceptive with her, but the best lies are sort of hidden in truth. So when he says the things they say on the bluff, in my opinion, he really meant them and that's why they're so effective. And that's why even Lisbon — the sort of wary detective — doesn't see it coming, because it just hits her in such an emotional place.
Will their heart-to-heart be revisited later this season? Woodruff: We're exploring a lot of that. We're just now into the first couple of episodes of the new [post-Red John] world, and there's so much going on and so much that we're setting up and changing that it's a tricky one to answer. But the dynamic between Jane and Lisbon is such a core part of the show. That's always going to be there. It may change and adapt, but it'll always be the heart, I think, of the show.
What's the significance of Jane bringing the five Red John suspects to his house? Woodruff: There really wasn't another setting that was as fitting, that had as much emotional resonance and just meant as much. It's a charged place, as soon as you step foot inside that door, as soon as Jane looks at the smiley face that's faded after 10 years. To me, there was just nowhere else to do it.
With Haffner, Bertram and Smith all having the tattoo, is it safe to assume that it relates to the Tiger Tiger conspiracy within law enforcement? Woodruff: Absolutely. It's definitely related to Tiger Tiger, but how it's related is still a little bit of a mystery. It's going to be explained and explored further in the coming episodes.
Since they don't have the tattoo, can Stiles and Haffner be ruled out as suspects at this point, or is that jumping the gun? Woodruff: I think it might be jumping the gun, only because as soon as more than one person has the tattoo, it sort of throws into question the whole theory that Jane's been operating on up until this moment. So I wouldn't throw it out ... just given the nature of our show and how we twist things around, and Red John as a character, how sort of capable and deceitful he's been able to be all these years. Don't forget, Jane's been in the place where he's been 100 percent positive of Red John before and he was wrong. So I wouldn't underestimate Red John.
Being so close to catching Red John, where is Jane's head in the final moments of the episode, leading up to the (quite literally) explosive ending? Woodruff: I just haven't seen [Baker] go there and be that way very often in the series. I think it's really, really fun to watch. He brings a menace and a sort of danger that you don't always see from Patrick Jane. ... You can really feel it in those scenes, and on set it's the same way. Those scenes in particular I feel are really interesting for his character, to go to that place.
We've heard Red John's voice before and it doesn't match up with any of the suspects. How will the show resolve this? Woodruff: We definitely will deal with that, and I think it's done in a really, really great way that's going to be coming up in [Episode 8]. ... We were very aware of that and conscious of it going forward and in dealing with Red John and [his] voice and all that stuff. So it definitely pays off, and faithful viewers will, I think, be satisfied by it.
Just uploaded my version of the final showdown between Jane and Red John. Wanted to get it up before we found out for real!!! Oh, the pressure!
Not to beg (well, shucks, actually I am begging...I only get better with feedback!) but I would love to hear your comments - you can reply in the fanfiction thread on this site, or by PM, or on the fanfiction site at the end of the story. I really am desperate for truthful (even if negative) feedback.
Here's the link Hope it works, if not, I guess typing it in might:
Apologies for putting this shameless plug here, Fran. I'll remove it if you're not happy....I just got so excited that I'd finished it and wanted the maximum amount of honest people to read it!!!
Spoilers ahead for anyone who hasn't read AgentM's story.
So! Just finished it and it was quite good. I like the creativity of having ice cream cones and air planes play in, makes it a very vivid read. Now I am partial to Partridge, so that decision I was very happy with. Your idea to include Stiles in the final confrontation is also very intriguing and I can see why it even had to be. The lines are all very Mentalist and it was easy to imagine the characters we've gotten to know speak and act as they did. Great work.
If I were to issue some critique as well, I would say there is a slight lacking in Jane's deduction skills. Going back after the story is done to make the behaviour of the suspect and Jane's read there-of more accurate to what the plot ended up as would be my suggestion. I'm here referring for example to the discussion Jane has with the guy in the diner, where he notes that "didn't" is the wrong tense for someone telling the truth. I would say it's a rather accurate use, given the victim is no more. There is also Red John himself, post-reveal. I think your attempt to handle his persona is ambitious in the least, and there is a lot to live up to given the legacy you try to build on. That said, I would've sat down for a while to really think through what the two want out of that confrontation and how it makes sense given their history. Then let the characters come to life on their own. The best part was to me when Partridge simply invited Jane aboard the plane and Jane went along with it, no questions asked. That moment really made a lot of sense to me. More like that, where the two play of their own knowledge of the other, would have probably added a lot of tension and depth to the moment.
To summarize: Great story. Not many could sit down and finish a project that big, and especially not as well as you did. There are pet peeves, of course, but those are mostly in the details, and as a whole, the story comes of as ambitious and creative. Good job.
Message edited by kul65 - Monday, 11-Nov-13, 2:14 PM
Thanks for your feedback, kul65. I've copied and pasted your comments into the fanfiction thread in FUN STUFF....and I've put a more lengthy response too, I hope you don't mind. I just didn't want to take up room in this thread, as it's not really relevant. I only posted the link here because it was a hot thread with lots of members visiting it --- I am shameless, I know, I admit it, I wanted as many people as poss to read it!
Date: Wednesday, 13-Nov-13, 11:20 AM | Message # 237
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 4127
Status: Offline
From TVGuide: http://www.tvguide.com/News....97.aspx Any hints about who survives the explosion on The Mentalist? — Eric ADAM: Spoiler alert: Jane lives! In all seriousness, the blast does take out a significant number of Red John suspects, and before Sunday's episode is over, Jane and Lisbon will go public with who they believe to be the serial killer. But it can't be that easy. And of course, it won't be: Look for Rockmond Dunbar to make his first appearance in the episode's waning moments. (Hint: He's not there to make friends.)
From TVLine: http://tvline.com/2013....usiello Question: Purdy, purdy please any scoop on The Mentalist. —Erin Ausiello: If you thought, as some did (I’m looking at you, Mitovich!), that last week’s episode-ending explosion was some sort of neatly orchestrated diversion technique, oh how wrong you are. No, as this coming Sunday’s episode opens, there are bodies (and, gulp, body parts) to be found, while a frantic Lisbon places her trust in perhaps the worst person possible.
Going public with Red John's name still fits with the theory that Jane might have been putting on a show this season. It could also mean we've hit the point where he's about to put on a show, but I really hope it's the former.
One thought if "the worst person possible" isn't Red John: What if it's Reede Smith, pretending to be undercover within the Tiger Tiger Consortium? I would like to see some justice done to him for Bob.
