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Discussion
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| bee |
Date: Tuesday, 10-Jul-12, 10:41 AM | Message # 46 |
 Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1525
Status: Offline |
I agree fangs4fun...I found TG so depressing but kept watching the series in the hope that it would improve. I think Simon wanted there to be some lighter moments but "the powers that be" decided against it. I know the show centred on difficult subjects and this was to be expected but there didn't seem to be any lighter moments even among the main cast's storylines! I didn't like Burton's attitude towards Nick, he seemed so distant towards him and I don't ever think Nick got over the fact that he was sent away to boarding school and that Burton never really loved him and I absolutely hated Lulu. She was so self-centred and judgemental. She lead Nick on and then dropped him never considering his feelings at all. Even at the end of the series she didn't even give him the right to let his daughter have his name!! So sad. I wasn't surprised when it ran for only three seasons, I don't think I could have watched much more. I felt so sorry for Nick. In the end personally I didn'think it was entertaining enough and I believe it was the writers fault it didn't last.
My favourite episode was "Heart". I thought Nick really connected to the young girl and it was so sad especially at the end. Another episode I enjoyed was when Nick returned to taking drugs and experienced going back in time when he was a young boy with his mother just before she got sick. Simon's acting was superb and very moving. I did read that Simon said TG was very 'draining' and I can believe it. I'm glad that it didn't put him off of doing another TV series though because TM is absolutely superb, both funny and dramatic. Long may it last!
Message edited by bee - Tuesday, 10-Jul-12, 10:43 AM |
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| fangs4fun |
Date: Tuesday, 10-Jul-12, 11:13 AM | Message # 47 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 51
Status: Offline |
Hi Bee. Stupid decision by TPTB. You can't expect viewers to tune in week in week out to watch something depressing. A little light at the end of the tunnel would have been nice. With what I've seen of SB's personality, I am surprised he lasted that long on the show. It is a credit to his great acting skills and work ethic that he was able to produce quality performance even though it must be taking a toll on him pretending to be such a closed-off, self loathing depressing character like Nick.
Nick/Burton: Burton loves Nick and vice versa. These men just have issues communicating their feelings. I did like that scene when Burton caught Nick cheating and called him out on it. I was really disappointed with Nick when he cheated on Lulu. Maybe he was just that desperate for "love and affection" (Patrick Jane!) that he turned to that other woman.
Nick/Lulu: I did not see enough from Lulu to think that she loves Nick. I think she's attracted physically. But other than that, it's always been Nick pursuing her, going through hoops to be with her, to keep her safe, make sure she doesn't get hurt. Didn't Nick help Brian when he got caught with a hooker because he didn't want Lulu to get hurt if she finds out? There are many scenes we see Nick doing things for Lulu. He doesn't say a lot, but his actions do speak a lot about how much he loves Lulu. I do not recall Lulu ever doing the same. I thought in the 3rd season they would fix this. Lulu was so cruel to not allow Nick to give his daughter his last name. Why didn't she just out right say that she does not love Nick? Why did she have to wait for Nick to figure it out?
Nick/Alvin: I think Alvin was the only one who actively helped Nick even if Nick was being an ass to him. Alvin never gave up on Nick. Alvin may have his faults (like interfering with James's nephew), but he is quite perceptive of people around him and tries to help. He tried to help Lulu by giving her pamphlets for people who love addicts. He tried to help Nick find his humanity and compassion. Tried to help Nick with his addiction.
Heart is a great episode. My fave too.
TM is a much better show, IMO. Hope it lasts long. Red John or no Red John.
Message edited by fangs4fun - Tuesday, 10-Jul-12, 11:14 AM |
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| bee |
Date: Tuesday, 10-Jul-12, 2:03 PM | Message # 48 |
Fair Dinkum
Messages: 1525
Status: Offline |
I agree with all that you say fangs4fun and yes although Burton did love Nick it was hard for him to communicate that love to him. I also believe that to a certain extent Simon's talent was a little wasted on that show, he could have shown us much more to Nick's character. He was after all a troubled soul (similar, although not for the the same reason, as PJ). This is why TM is so successful and such a great part for Simon's talent. He has been allowed to show the many layers of Patrick Jane's complex character which will never make the show too depressing. |
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| fangs4fun |
Date: Tuesday, 10-Jul-12, 4:59 PM | Message # 49 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 51
Status: Offline |
Too bad the powers didn't listen to SB about Nick. They stuck Nick in a corner. The depressing attitude got tiresome after a while. Seeing Nick smile in the show was so rare that it is such a big thing when it happens. I bet viewership is high during episodes where Nick is somewhat happy and smiling. |
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| Juney |
Date: Tuesday, 10-Jul-12, 5:50 PM | Message # 50 |
 Bee's Knees
Messages: 606
Status: Offline |
fangs4fun, I've caught up from a different thread. I disliked Lulu towards the end of the 2nd season. I know Nick did the dirty on her, but she used him as a convenience and when it suited her. I really did not want them to end up together. The baby would have been a problem for their relationship as she didn't want to give her Nick's surname or let him have legal rights, and he really wanted to be a good father to her. In one way I wanted the series to continue but in another I was worried that it would be more about Lulu and the baby than about The Guardian.
I can't watch the re-runs because I haven't got satellite and am a complete technophobe and could never work out how to decode DVRs so I just have to remember and look at the screencaps.  |
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| beautyfulbabyboy |
Date: Tuesday, 10-Jul-12, 8:45 PM | Message # 51 |
 True Blue
Messages: 782
Status: Offline |
Hi Juney, Hi everyone!
not sure if its appropriate to post this here, but I watch TG online here:
http://www.free-tv-video-online.me/internet/the_guardian/index.html
works quite well for me |
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| fangs4fun |
Date: Tuesday, 10-Jul-12, 11:43 PM | Message # 52 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 51
Status: Offline |
Quote (Juney) fangs4fun, I've caught up from a different thread. I disliked Lulu towards the end of the 2nd season. I know Nick did the dirty on her, but she used him as a convenience and when it suited her. I really did not want them to end up together. The baby would have been a problem for their relationship as she didn't want to give her Nick's surname or let him have legal rights, and he really wanted to be a good father to her. In one way I wanted the series to continue but in another I was worried that it would be more about Lulu and the baby than about The Guardian.
Others made an observation that Lulu just takes and rarely gives whereas Nick gives and gives. I think I agree. I was okay with her at the beginning but slowly disliked her when I saw her leading Nick on. I hated that she was never upfront about her feelings towards him. She left Nick feeling uncertain all throughout the series until the final episode where Nick finally figured out why.
I would have liked to see and extra season to see Lulu pursuing Nick but Nick rejecting her because he found someone who loves and understands him. |
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| sylvia5993 |
Date: Wednesday, 11-Jul-12, 1:16 AM | Message # 53 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 538
Status: Offline |
Remember that when all was done, Nick came up to the plate and assumed the responsability for the Legal Aid office and this was his vindication, Lulu as the mother of his child would probably respect this and she already allowed him his place in the child's life, if not in hers. I never did see what it was that so enthralled Nick in the first place with this woman, but that is how the writer and director of the show introduced the script and how they ended it, I think leaving the viewer to make their own conclusion, which I appreciated. Simon said the role cost him dearly but did allow him to showcase the talent we all admire now in this equally challenging role but with a built-in comic relief. |
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| Juney |
Date: Wednesday, 11-Jul-12, 5:16 PM | Message # 54 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 606
Status: Offline |
fans4fun Yes - him rejecting her and to have a new love would have suited me. Does that make me a b****. That's what I thought she was anyway. I don't know why I get so wound up about that series, I guess I really liked Nick with all his faults. |
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| lenacr |
Date: Wednesday, 11-Jul-12, 8:42 PM | Message # 55 |
 Dinkie-Di
Messages: 181
Status: Offline |
To Juney and others: I have similar feelings about Lulu. I much preferred the blond social worker with whom Nick cheated on Lulu (don't remember her name).
Also, I don't understand what this man did (except for the drugs, which unfortunately is not that uncommon and is more of an illness rather than a vice) to deserve so many miseries in his life.
Anyway, maybe this is more like real life where happy endings do not always apply. |
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| fangs4fun |
Date: Wednesday, 11-Jul-12, 11:51 PM | Message # 56 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 51
Status: Offline |
Quote (lenacr) Also, I don't understand what this man did (except for the drugs, which unfortunately is not that uncommon and is more of an illness rather than a vice) to deserve so many miseries in his life
Me too. Misery loves Nick despite what I saw was a good person. I don't see why
Quote (lenacr) Anyway, maybe this is more like real life where happy endings do not always apply.
sure, but after everything that has happened to the character, you'd think the writers would give him something good. They gave him Lulu but they turned Lulu into such a wishy washy tease who doesn't really love him but likes his money. Then they give him a child but they decided that the child must have Downs. They gave him good friends with James and Alvin but they decided to kill James and Alvin. They made Nick lose his job by the most unpleasant way. At least he seemed to be getting closer with his Dad but first they made him watch his dad devote so much love and attention to that Shannon girl (who annoyed me with her stupidity).
I started to feel like they are really piling on the angst in the 3rd season. I skipped most non-Nick scenes just to avoid the other angst. Nick angst is more than enough for me. Like I said before, I don't like angsty drama shows like TG but my love for SB kept me watching. |
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| fangs4fun |
Date: Thursday, 12-Jul-12, 1:17 AM | Message # 57 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 51
Status: Offline |
On a more positive note, I do enjoy Nick's interactions with Barbara. I read somewhere that it is because Barabara treated him like a normal person, she joked with him, saw thru his crush on Lulu and confided in him. I love that episode where he was with Barbara waiting for her fiance to get married. Nick was very gentle and compassionate with Barbara. I guess he understands what it's like to be in a one-sded relationship. I was so happy for Barbara when her fiance did not ditch her. I think she was the only character in the show who had a happy ending.
I was enjoying the Barbara/Jake friendship. I don't know what happened to that. This show has a habit on doing this. I remember there was an Alvin/Lori Salt thing too. But it disappeared too. At one point, I thought there would be a Burton/Lori thing too because Burton seemed quite taken with Lori being pretty. |
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| lenacr |
Date: Thursday, 12-Jul-12, 10:23 AM | Message # 58 |
Dinkie-Di
Messages: 181
Status: Offline |
To Fangs4fun:
From what I remember Jake is the guy, who, although has benefitted mostly by Nick and his father, then turns against them both, overthrowing them from their own Law Firm. (I watched TG on-line last year, so some details may have gone, but this is the gist). So, he represents one of the worst turnouts of this series.
I found TG extremely depressing too and, although I watched it through - as I said on-line, I really do not wish to go back and watch it again.
But Simon was wonderful in his role, so convincing and so different from TM, and gorgeous as usual
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| fangs4fun |
Date: Thursday, 12-Jul-12, 3:44 PM | Message # 59 |
Jillaroo
Messages: 51
Status: Offline |
lenacr, I agree. They turned Jake into such a hated character in the end. Things are going great in his work and personal life whereas Nick's are getting worse. Jake took over the firm and is about to get married to a rich connected woman who loves him. Nick lost his job and woman he loves does not love him back. Yeah, not going to re-watch this series anytime soon. Unless someone edits the vids so that we can just skip to all Nick scenes. |
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| Juney |
Date: Friday, 13-Jul-12, 1:06 PM | Message # 60 |
Bee's Knees
Messages: 606
Status: Offline |
We all seem to agree about Lulu and Jake, (what an ungrateful louse he turned out to be). lnacr the social worker's name was Suzanne. I agree about only watching the Nick scenes but I haven't got the DVD's so had to watch the whole lot, which was really depressing. Can we watch it on-line anywhere (please note I'm not really clued up on computers).
fangs4fun we seem to be on the same wavelength regarding all the relationships. (What did happen to the dreaded Shannon, she wasn't mentioned in the suggested Sunday lunch idea from Burton to Nick in the last ep. Lulu was but would she have been interested).
I also agree that the writers really seemed to hate their creation, Nick. They gave potential happiness with one hand and took it away with the other. So sad.
Another point, I don't know anything about US maternity leave laws, but who would have been supporting Lulu while she was not working? You guessed it, Nick. I do take things seriously don't I. |
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