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Forum » Television Series » The Mentalist - Season 4 » Episode Discussion - Season 4 - US pace (SPOILERS for those watching at UK pace)
Episode Discussion - Season 4 - US pace
Tina Date: Monday, 14-May-12, 9:46 AM | Message # 91
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What a great episode. I watched it 3 times on Saturday and yesterday again! And I'm going to watch it today. I just love drama, and this finally gave me a lot of it. I thought a lot about what happened, and more and more I think maybe it's all an act for RJ....he wanted Wainright to fire him. Maybe he suspects he is working for RJ. I'd love to see more episodes like that, this season there were too many "light" episodes, I love PJ to be funny and I love his smile, but I even more like the dark PJ, and there should be more of him!
I hope the cliffhanger is not too bad, I really hate to wait 4 months to know how it goes on. I like endings like at Season 1 ...with no big cliffhangers.
I don't know how to get through the summer anyway ..okay, watching old episodes, but I'm getting more and more addicted to this show, I hardly could think about anything else on the weekend. I think I'm really crazy
Simon and TM is a big part of my life, and he really can make me so happy. I can't wait for the final episode! I just hope this show goes on a lot more years!

Tina
 
RRyan Date: Wednesday, 16-May-12, 9:17 PM | Message # 92
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"Red Rover" was an awesome episode! Simon's acting was TOTALLY jaw-dropping! Best scenes for me were PJ and Lisbon in the cemetery, and best of all... the confrontation between PJ and Wainwright: Jane standing tall, chest out, chin up like he was ready to take out Wainwright (GO JANE GO!!! biggrin - I mean, really... he usually just mouths off and turns and runs.), then instead he pulls off a little smile and a subtle gesture to really get to Wainwright better than any shot of the fist would have. LOVED IT! Awesome, Simon, AWESOME!

I had wondered from time to time why the writers never had written anything about Jane dealing with an Anniversary or birthday. I think maybe this one may be an exceptionally difficult anniversary for Jane for some reason, perhaps because it may be the year his daughter would have been 16(?). Not sure I got the math-facts right on this but just a thought. Then that way RJ's taunting about the anniversary, and not being caught yet, was a perfect opportunity for him to stick a nasty low-blow to a hurting Jane even more.

I'm hoping that this really is a downward spiral for Jane that shows us more of what he's dealing with inside as a human being. I would hate to think that he's using his family's murder and faking some kind of breakdown was part of some master plan in attempt to go after Red John. That would make him too incredibly cold, mean and... repulsive. I think he intentionally got out of the CBI because he's just plain fed up with the system - he busted his backside to catch the bad guy and for his efforts got rewarded by being mouthed off by Wainwright because he 'crossed the line' and was told that by doing so the bad guy would likely go free. PJ said something like, "What's the point of all this if we can't catch the bad guy?" He's always pushing the limits of right and wrong and we know he'd certainly 'cross the line' if he ever got his hands on RJ. A confrontation with Wainwright has been a long time coming, and Wainwright threatening PJ certainly didn't help. Wainwright was just someone else that took advantage of Jane's 'sore-spot' and like RJ, kicked him when he was down. At least with Jane manipulating Wainwright to fire him, he still leaves the CBI on his own terms and jerking Wainwright's chain was probably way more gratifying than just quitting. I'm liking this 'dark side' Jane. It's a nice edge to his character. Hope we see a little more of it next season.
 
angel Date: Friday, 18-May-12, 12:41 PM | Message # 93
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4.24 The Crimson Hat - Finale Airdate 17 May 2012

Well what can i say. I woke up and just decided there and then to watch it. How do you explain it all quickly. You can't. I loved the opening when Jane meets Loralei, connection was brilliant and Emanuelle was breathtaking. Loved how he just comes out and tells her he's a con man. Then the thugs show up for their money from Jane scamming him. The story behind it was hilarious, pur con Jane. Then the chase. Poor Jane this was the first of 2 beatings for him.He really went thru the mill. But i was so happy when finaly Jane got to throw a few punches back, shame it was at the police.

Loved the interaction with Jane and Loralei in his motel room' beautiful. But then in the morning what a wake up call. She tells him she does what Red John tells her to. The look on Janes face, my god Simon is the expert at acting without saying a word. She says that his freedon, this night was a gift from him. My heart sank.

I am going to say it but this was the only dissapointment that i was really looking forward to Jane finaly being in a relationship with someone who could help him and the way Bruno built it up i thought great, this was a way for Jane to move on with his life but alas Loralei turns out to be the bad girl and Bruno really misled me on this.

But kudos to Emanuelle she was brilliant and i so hope that they use her well in S5 because she is a breath of fresh air on here. Even if she turns out to be Red John i love her to bits.

Back to story and well after he tells her to leave and she does a small smile is on Janes face and you know that this is all his plan to get Red John.

Inbetween we go to cbi for a john doe murder and they find out that jane has hit rock bottom and the care from Cho, Rigsby, Grace to want to help him was touching but Lisbon says no.

Then when Lisbon goes to church Jane shouts 'this is the voice of god' and appears. he said 'i crawled on my hands n knees to get here and it was worth it'. Nice to get some humour in there. He explains what he was doing that it was a fake breakdown. Lisbon swearing was so funny. But the con is on. Red John wants him to be a desciple of his.

Well the most frightening scene was when Loralei told Jane to meet Red John he had to bring a present. Preferably Lisbons dead body. Wooah. He agrees.

This sets him up to return to cbi with a gun. Jane takes Lisbon into her office and gives her a hug, then points gun at her and says 'Love ya' and you hear shots.

Now i know all the shippers are going to love the declaration but don't read too much into it. yes we all know in a way Jane loves Lisbon but i still don't think a full blown romance is coming out of this scene like some of the comments i have been hearing. He did not say 'I Love You' he said 'Love Ya' which is a term of endearment that even i use with friends. So i hope they don't set themselves up for another dissapointment. I think Bruno added this in to make up for all the Lorelei love stories that was going around so decided to give something back to the shippers. Thats my take so won't read into it too much. But it was a great scene.

Then all hell breaks loose and we see Grace and Cho tearfull over what is supposed to be Rigsby dead body. My heart was pumping so much at this point.

Then we are at the warehouse where the team meet up to plan the next stage. I was very surprised that when Jane thanked them for helping that Cho said 'we're not doing it for you, we're doing it for the boss' which is totaly opposite to the start of episode when they wanted to help him. Bit strange unless its the usual Cho trying to hide his feelings.

Then the big meet in deserted street. While Jane goes off to meet Lorelei, Darcy who figured Rigsby body was not him, is closing in on the team with orders to arrest them and shoot them if necessary. Jane meets Loralei and immediately knows the head inthe box is a fake. Then the second beating comes. Shoved in car and Red John sitting there in dark speaking to Jane. Or is it? Least to say he is dissapointed. I kept listening to the voice and was thinking, there was a hint of Virgil Minelli in the voice but then thought, no it can't be. Bruno did say we have already seen Red John.

They drag him outside and Red John tells them to remove 2 fingers. I could not believe how easily Lorelei got the clippers and was about to cut off the ring finger when Darcy and FBI turn up and chase begins. They shoot out the car and then take Lorelei in custody and in back seat i am sure it was Wainwright taped up dead with moniter on him.

If it was him it was a bit of a sad way for him to bow out. Looks like he had nothing to do with Red John and neither did Darcy.

Jane meanwhile is at side of road and Lisbon sits beside him. He holds her hand. Touching scene of true friendship between them.

Back at cbi interrogation Lorelei tells Lisbon she and Jane were lovers. Lisbon looks at Jane but to me she was surprised but not in state of shock as again some comments have been made about it. She is a proffessional. Lorelei says she won't talk and Jane comes over and tells her that what will Red John say when he finds out cbi has one of his deciples. Jane says she will talk and he kisses her on the head and walks out. Strange ending.

Will he try to unbrainwash her and get her to help him. Will he use their night together to get at her feelings. What does Jane really think of Loralei because even though she works for Red John, i don't know their is something weird between Jane and Lorelei which i cannot put my finger on. So will be interesting to see how it turns out in the episodes that she will be on which is the first 5 i assume. Or maybe even more depending on howe deep she is in with Red John.

Exciting stuff and so looking forward to S5. Just hope the sunday new time will keep loyal fans and bring in some new ones.

Again want to say absolutley loved Emanuelle and so look forward to seeing her in S5. great casting.

Told you this was going to be long.
 
lyn Date: Friday, 18-May-12, 1:32 PM | Message # 94
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" Cho said 'We're not doing it for you, we're doing it for the boss' "

I guess Cho felt the same way I did ( even though I knew Jane was playing a con, I'd hoped some of his distress in 23 was genuine). Cho is a very straight up man and I think like me he felt that yet again Jane had cheated him, and for six whole months. Cho, even though he is cynical about him sometimes, admires Jane and is a team player, I also think he is by far the most perceptive of the team and is very protective of Lisbon.
 
justlook3 Date: Friday, 18-May-12, 4:32 PM | Message # 95
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Am I the only one who knew that the shootings would be a total con when they happened? Maybe I've watched one too many soap operas. wink With me I felt that the "love ya" was a confirmation of their best friends status. And that it wasn't part of the con, there was noone there to hear them, so I think it was his way of thanking her for everything she was doing. I think it just sorta confirmed everything this season. She's pretty much the only person in the world he trusts and cares about in his own Jane way. Wasn't romantic but it was heartfelt. (My inner romantic did flipflops during that, the hand holding and the love scene with Lorelai, so I don't know what that says about me! Guess I'm just a romantic no matter what!)
I wanted to hate Lorelai but I found I couldn't. She's very intriguing and compelling. I'm hoping they keep her going in that way to explain how Jane could be drawn to her. Though the fact that they were playing Chris Issak's "Wicked Game" in the background when they met should have warned us all! The ending was a bit weird, but I think it's just let the games begin!
I agree that I think the team had been sympathetic to Jane until they found out that it was all a lie. Then they were hurt. As Jimmy Gadd said last night, Jane doesn't mean to hurt them, but with Red John, everything goes out the window. We know that they are loyal and sympathetic to both him and Lisbon. They've put their bodies and jobs out on the line for both of them time and time again. But I think Cho did speak for the team in that Jane's on probation yet again with them.
Darcy finally lived up to her potential in this episode. At first I thought, oh crap, Darcy ruining everything. But in the end, she believed Lisbon and pretty much saved Jane. I don't think RJ's FBI mole is Darcy at all. She was too pissed at missing RJ. It could be that Bill guy she called or it could be anyone. He recruited Craig from the FBI after all.
Poor Wainwright. I didn't think he was that effective of a leader but he deserved a better fate.
Will we get a new boss next season? It's getting a little funny a new one every year. They're like the Spinal Tap Drummers.
Oh in minor details, I was happy about the fact that it appears that Sarah and Rigsby were still together at the six month mark. I mean it could be they are still just co-parenting, but I like to think they're trying to make a relationship work.
 
RRyan Date: Friday, 18-May-12, 5:44 PM | Message # 96
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I'm undecided if Jane's breakdown was a total lie/con. Not only because he's had breakdown issues before, but it seemed to me it was legit, especially in scenes where he was drinking alone in his motel room, plus the overall glum/depressive demeanor he had when he was alone. Then after Jane told Loralei to leave (heartbreaker when Loralei fessed up to who she was), he paused, thought for a moment, and then a light bulb lit up in his head, and he slowly smiled. I took that as him as realizing what an opportunity he now had to get RJ, and that pulled him out of his slump... got him back on his game. When he told Lisbon about his breakdown being faked, this could have been a necessary lie in order for him to get her help. Otherwise if he came off not 'in total control', she may have decided that he was just still too emotionally unstable, grasping at straws, and refuse.

I too think Lisbon's reaction to PJ and Loralei being 'lovers' is just shock, although it's really no surprise... the women he has been attracted to have been those that offer a strong mental challenge to him. As for 'Jane and Lisbon', I really don't see anything more than brother/sister or a strong friendship bond between them. Hope I'm right on that although Lisbon acted weird when she asked Patrick what he meant by his comments while he was 'shooting her'. He did say 'Good luck.', then that he loved her, which I thought just a term of endearment that he felt compelled to say 'in the moment' because he was afraid that if the plan didn't work, he may not make it out of the building alive.

Totally loved the church scene! Simon's acting through the whole episode was amazing. "The expert at acting without saying a word." Absolutely!!
 
Thrill Date: Friday, 18-May-12, 5:59 PM | Message # 97
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i cant add much - having watched it x3 I'm drained! I found the scene with Lisbon just before he shot her very touching. He hugged her tight - and she looked like she wasn't expecting it and called her Teresa and I think he said "love you" not "love ya" - I think it was a bit more heartfelt. He deflected her question about it later very neatly. The holding hands at the end was also very warm - after 6 months of stress (playing the long con) - he was finally letting his guard down. He clearly has a very deep fondness and respect for Lisbon and probably wouldn't admit to anything more.

I really liked Lorelai - I agree very intriguing. And finally Patrick manages to sleep soundly for the first time in 9 years wink

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I didn't think the end was weird - just keeping us guessing and obviously trying to get under Lorelai's skin - while she tries very hard to rattle Lisbon - cat wars begin......

i thought Robin put in one of her best performances of the series - we are really starting to see depth to Lisbons character.

Roll on S5 wacko wacko
 
beautyfulbabyboy Date: Friday, 18-May-12, 9:18 PM | Message # 98
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okay... I´m breathing again, find all my fingers and my head still where they belong. wow!

I was all unconcentrated the whole day at work and time seemend to pass in slowmotion, if at all.

Now, that I finally saw it, I am happy everything turned out as (most expected) a long con. But I am not dissapointed at all, there was enough surprise left. Great episode, great acting!

My thoughts in more or less chronological order, wrote down while watching and made up afterwards:

-sweet first meeting, really like Lorelei

-hey that TV-scene with the Zebras reminds me of the one we saw in the very first ep. (Found out it wasn´t the same, though.)

-...
(I always find myself stop breathing when Simon has a kiss-scene)

-close to tears when Lorelei told him who she was and looked sooooo hurt!

-funny church-scene, finally Jane told Lisbon about the long con

-we see the first real and deeply honest hug from Jane to Lisbon (happy Jisbon-shippers now?)

-containts of the box: not Jane´s stuff, no unburned RJ-files, no money, not "the crimson hat" ( I loved that thought, Justlook3!) - Lisbon´s fake-head!

-Showdown: I first thought: d****b**** Darcy, f**** CBI! And really, I couldn´t look when it was about cutting Jane`s fingers -
had my eyes shut!
but then again Darcy did the right thing, didn´t she? At least, Jane kept his fingers.

-OMG, RJ already knew Jane would try to fool him and took Wainwright, whom I just started to like, after all...(and then again - RJ
also killed all his moles and deciples before, couldn´t it be W. was actually? I know, some thought he was, I don´t know.

-How cute, and emotional is this! he took Lisbon´s hand and she lets him - hurray again for all you Jisbon-shippers!
I don´t think this is to be seen in a romantic way but actually there is a real bond and friendship between them now.

and then, all of a sudden - I didn´t realize the time went by - the end. Well done, there was no time to fear: it will soon be over and I will be left alone for the whole d*** f*** summer.
Okay, now I have the time to think exactly the same thing and I do...
 
angel Date: Friday, 18-May-12, 10:06 PM | Message # 99
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justlook3 what a great catch. I cannot believe the song 'wicked games' could have been a teaser from bruno and i totaly missed it. So right with that it was very appropriate.

Mind you if we cottoned on to it then it would give it away. Very clever of our bruno he likes to sneak this titbits in there under the radar.
 
justlook3 Date: Friday, 18-May-12, 11:55 PM | Message # 100
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I noticed it in the sneak peak but I wasn't sure if it really was in the episode or just added music. But it was perfect. I have to say Lorelai makes Erica look like a rank amateur. And it's actually pretty awesome.
 
Geli Date: Saturday, 19-May-12, 7:55 AM | Message # 101
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This episode was both drama and fun. Good acting together by Simon and Emmanuelle, and Simon and Robin. Jane said he wants to give RJ his heart's desire reminded me of Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the LORD and he will give you the desires of your heart." Lisbon saying that she tried calling Jane hundreds of times and having trouble sleeping shows how much she cares about him. The episode starts 6 months after he's been fired, that's roughly 180 days, so she called more than that? Jane realizes how much she's been affected and apologizes. Sarah must be so upset thinking Rigsby is dead. Noone wanted to see baby pics on his phone. Love the whole team. Obviously RJ seems to be the leader of some strange 'religion', one that doesn't believe in hell, no judgment, that killing and murdering is part of a 'higher path, a nobler existence'. Sad and dangerous there are such people in real life. Hope Jane never buys into this lie. What happened to Lorelei personally that she became a follower of RJ and this strange 'religion'? Don't understand why Wainwright was killed. Certainly RJ will know that Lorelei is in CBI custody. Will he try to get her killed as well? Who's the FBI mole? Look forward to season 5.
 
beautyfulbabyboy Date: Saturday, 19-May-12, 9:01 AM | Message # 102
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yes, is was striking for they do not often use music other than Blake Neely´s. I remember Peter Bradley Adam´s "darkening sky" in s2 ep 8 "his right hand".

So, was Wainright shot by the FBI-mole during the shooting? Or was he dead already then?
Will Lorelei be killed by RJ? If not, why not?

We will have to wait ans see.
 
Fran Date: Saturday, 19-May-12, 1:59 PM | Message # 103
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I haven’t commented before because I had to watch this Finale again before I could even start to think rationally about it. I thoroughly enjoyed it, I found it so intense and compelling that I was totally caught up in it, the only problem was that I kept forgetting to breathe!

Like several other people I‘ve also been wondering about whether or not Jane’s apparent breakdown was just an act or whether there was some truth in it. For me, Jane’s sanity has always been a grey area, and it still is. I think his level of obsession is unhealthy in itself, and this long con was particularly extreme, risking so much by living the way he did for 6 months, seems to me to be an indication that his grief, guilt, frustration and despair have reached overwhelming proportions. So I have to conclude that he is mentally off-balance.

I felt that in the opening scene with Lorelai, Jane had been expecting an approach from Red John, and in his conversation with her, he was testing her. So by the end of that conversation, I think he knew she was RJ’s girl. As mentioned by someone above, the clip they were watching on TV had a similar theme to the one in the Pilot episode, and also Red Moon I think – I took that as a clue from Bruno about RJ’s involvement here.

One of my favourite scenes was the one in the motel room where Lorelai reveals that she’s a Red John ‘gift’. I thought Simon’s performance here was breathtaking, and the little smile after Lorelai left was pure genius.

Another favourite was the Church scene with Lisbon, which I thought was very funny and also touching that despite Lisbon’s frustration, their friendship was never in doubt. I also loved when Jane goes to the CBI looking like a crazed man on a mission, ending with that wonderfully heartfelt hug and simple but effective ‘Love you’. It was brilliantly done, even though I’m sure nobody for a moment believed that Jane would actually harm Lisbon.

I must just mention my favourite funny moment – when Jane is comparing the melon to Lisbon’s head. That made me laugh so much that I had to pause it while I recovered. The rest of the team were obviously a bit miffed that Jane had deceived them, but that’s not the first time they’ve felt that way, and I don’t expect it will be the last.

The showdown was so exciting, I was on the edge of my seat, and when all the shooting was going on I was trying to think if it was possible for RJ to have escaped from the car. Bruno completely fooled me, so when I saw Wainwright I literally gasped from shock. I do think there’s a possibility that Wainwright was working for RJ, because it seemed a bit suspicious the way he seemed to be trying to find out if Lisbon was in contact with Jane. And just because RJ said that his informant was in the FBI, I don’t feel that I should simply believe him. He could have said that to conceal the fact that he has an insider at the CBI. Hopefully we’ll find that out in Season 5, but I hope Wainwright was one of RJ’s minions, because if he was an innocent I feel rather sad about his death.

Of course, another favourite moment has to be when a distraught Jane runs his hand down Lisbon’s lower arm and takes her hand – a heart-warming moment of finding a little solace in a true friend.

I liked the ending, because I found it intriguing. When Jane put his hands on Lorelai’s shoulders and kissed her head, it reminded me of the techniques we’ve seen him use when hypnotising people. So I was left wondering if Jane is just being optimistic about getting information out of her, or if he’s feeling confident that he knows how to do it. Either way, with a Red John disciple alive and in custody, I’m already excited about what Season 5 will bring.
 
AgentM Date: Saturday, 19-May-12, 5:15 PM | Message # 104
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Okay. so the temptation was too much...I couldn't wait for the UK to air it and I tracked down the eps we're waiting for online. OMG! This entire show is like fine wine - getting better and better with age!

I already knew Jane was going to admit faking his breakdown but I also agree with those who have said that it wasn't a complete lie - he is unravelling emotionally, all he's been doing is exaggerating it a little to entice RJ as he knows that RJ is keeping tabs on him. It's a typical Jane trait.

I guess we all knew that he wasn't going to really kill Lisbon, or Rigsby for that matter. As soon as I saw the John Doe without a face at the beginning I knew he would turn up somewhere else in the ep! Especially after Lisbon tells the coroner to get him on ice as quickly as she can 'cos 'he's gonna be around a while'. (Very subtle, Bruno, lol!) and having seen the promo with Van P crying over a body in the bullpen!!

Have to agree with you Fran, the melon-head comparison was absolutely hilarious!! lol Simon has such excellent comic tendencies as well as such an amazing capacity to be so dark!

Red John --- well, I've only watched it twice so far but I've listened to the voice of RJ - I've always believed that RJ is Brett Partridge and that it was his voice that we heard when RJ taunted Jane in the S2 finale. I stand by that, however, the voice in this finale was slightly different. I will listen to it over and over but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that there were a number of times when I could hear SB's inflections in certain words. surprised I know, I know!!!! I still don't believe PJ is RJ (it could be that Jack Plotnick was unavailable to do the voice so they had SB stand in --- Bradley Whitford did it in the S4 finale) I may be wrong (it doesn't often happen, but I'm willing to concede there's always a first time tongue ) Listen to it guys, with your eyes closed - and check it against SB's voice in Flame Red (when he was pretending to be Dave Martin) - Am I completely insane, or what?

The acting in the ep from everyone was outstanding - why the hell isn't this show winning more awards? - but special kudos goes out to SB - it has to - he truly is an incredible actor.

As for Wainwright's departure - I've always felt that he was a bit of a 'wet rag' so I, personally, won't miss him that much.

Lorelai is definitely intriguing --- everyone who becomes RJ's disciples ends up with the same kind of expression and sing-song quality to the way they speak when captured (check out Rebecca and Todd Johnson's glazed looks - Lorelai has it too) I am so looking forward to seeing how Jane will interact with her next season - I'm getting the feeling that he may feel a different connection that he keeps to himself but will be seen to be trying to manipulate her to get to RJ - maybe I'm just a softie but I think he may try to save her - even though he may appear to be using her. Yes, Fran, I noticed the shoulder touch and the kiss on the top of the head - it seemed like he was pulling an NLP trick by trying to anchor suggestions to her. I guess we'll see in due course.

Favourite moments - Jane on the bike - the melon-head comparison scene - the hug - the church scene 'This is God! What is it now?' lol - and of course, the hand holding (aahhhh how sweet! no shipping just pure friendship - he'd missed having her around for 6 months - and it was his genuine apology for leaving her out of the loop for so long). Also loved the scene when Jane was zapped by the cop with a stun gun - that tiny bit of flesh where his shirt rode up? Hubba hubba!! lol. wink

I love the way they keep linking back to the pilot - the nature show scene. Was definitely a subtle clue for us to expect a connection to RJ - Bruno has obviously learned alot about NLP techniques and he's using them on us!!!

Bruno is a writing, directing and producing genius. respect


Message edited by AgentM - Saturday, 19-May-12, 6:16 PM
 
justlook3 Date: Saturday, 19-May-12, 7:00 PM | Message # 105
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I keep thinking about Wainwright. Was he dead the whole time? Obviously he'd have to be drugged or something to keep from moving or moaning. I just kept thinking if he was dead, wouldn't he start to smell? I mean okay, Patrick was distracted and all but I think by now he knows the smell of death. I suppose the glass being up and all might have prevented it but still. I don't know. Still not sure if Wainwright was a mole or not. Too many questions.
Big one is why is Lorelai still alive? Five episodes worth of RJ letting her live? Interesting stuff.

And I completely agree with the following:
Quote
Bruno is a writing, directing and producing genius. respect
 
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